Discussion

jihadjihad: A Persian lime is a cross between a Key lime and a lemon? I never would have guessed that, that's really interesting.

ok_dad: This is cool! I do wish I could search for a specific citrus by name.

smlacy: Seems to be missing the Etrog? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_taxonomy#CitronsAlso, the "click to show search results" is cool but fails for "Arizona Citron" in obvious ways.

jlauf: Thanks! I'll add it when I get a chance.

jlauf: There are lots of citruses missing; the ones in the chart are only the ones I could find reliable values for (from the sources at the bottom). I'll add more if I can find other reliable sources. For what it's worth, I think the etrog is basically a pure citron variety.Yeah, that's definitely an issue. If I get a chance, I'll curate images to add!

fritzo: Inheritance is astonishingly more complex than trees, e.g.Wong et al. (2024) "A general and efficient representation of ancestral recombination graphs" https://doi.org/10.1093/genetics/iyae100

pazimzadeh: I couldn't find the Seville orange, or what Iranians call NarangNevermind, they have the "Sevillan Sour Orange" and a few other sour oranges

davidw: Now I wish I could try all of these.

s0rce: There is an annual citrus festival in Riverside, CA where many hybrids are developed.

s0rce: I think the etrog is not a hybrid so it would overlap with the citron

hammock: Missing kumquats (and calamondins and mandarinquats)

s0rce: they discuss that, they were not hybridized to the same extent. They do discuss the key lime ancestry as orthogonal, it would be cool to use a tetrahedron instead to show that.

jlauf: Interesting, going to read more!

wgrover: Yes! And every day the California Citrus State Historic Park is open for tours and tasting of various citrus varieties:https://www.californiacitruspark.com

CamelCaseCondo: During lockdown I started growing clementine from seed. One of the interesting details of this genus is polyembryonism: multiple seedlings emerging from one seed. Apparently, one of the seedlings will be a clone of the motherplant and the rest will be the product of pollination/genetic reshuffling. My clementine seeds all had 2 seedlings per seed but other attempts (with lemon I think) yielded 3 or more).During my reading I came across a lot of contradictory info about the origin of the clementine: some papers say it’s an unknown hybrid, other clearly state it’s a mutation instead of a hybrid. So it’s interesting to read the hybrid parentage in this triangle, stated with confidence.

seszett: Polyembryony is the reverse of what you think: one embryo is a result of pollination and all the others are clones. The sexual reproduction embryo is often less vigorous and sometimes doesn't develop at all. It makes it easy to reproduce "true" plants, but also makes it difficult to produce hybrids for some species.

Fordec: Also appears to be missing Yuzu and Sudachi

riffraff: Chinotto (apparently called mirtle leaves bitter orange in English?) also has some confused origin (perhaps it's a mutation of some other bitter orange, but it's unclear), and afaict it's not in this chart, or I can't find it.Citrus fruits are fun.

contubernio: Couldn't find blood oranges (sanguina in Spanish). Curious to know where they fit.

jsmith99: I assume the esrog is the primeval citron but I've noticed that Jewish tradition (which rejects the use of hybrid citrons) allows some surprisingly different citrons in practice, popularly associated with Israel, Morocco, Yemen, Corfu etc. These differ considerably in eg rind thickness.

interroboink: I recently learned about the fact that Sichuan peppercorns are actually related to citrus, so was looking for where the connection is... As it turns out[1], there is a "citrus family" (Rutaceae[2]) and a citrus genus (Citrus[3], in that family). The Sichuan plant is a member of the family, but not the genus (that would be Zanthoxylum[4]). Confusing! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47248319 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutaceae [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanthoxylum

zeristor: I couldn't find Yuzu, I guess I could have looked at the source JSON file, worked out the co-ordinates that find it on the chart, if its there.Yuzu seems to be having a bit of a moment, like pistachio nuts.

poizan42: According to wikipedia they are cultivated from a hybrid of mandarin orange and Ichang papeda, the latter being from another wild lineage than the three shown.

drmpeg: Meyer lemons from my backyard.https://www.w6rz.net/lemons.png

zeristor: Indeed, thanks.This takes the citrus gram into 3Dhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papeda_(citrus)

antasvara: From what I can tell, the papeda is included as a sort of addendum in the bottom right corner of the chart.

cenamus: It belongs to the sweet oranges, so probably in the big cluster there somewhere