Discussion

Colon cancer now leading cause of cancer deaths under 50 in US

kvgr: There is going to be some big AHA moment tied so couple food practices. Like washing chicken in chlorine or something. I wonder how are the stats in other developed countries. The title says US.

taeric: The trend has been down, even for this cancer. Such that I agree there were probably some big AHA moments. But I assert they almost certainly happened 50 years ago.My expectation is that it is less that there has been a growing trend of this cancer getting worse, and far more that we have gotten better at many other cancers. That is, overall, this is good news on progress. Not a scare headline.

sublinear: Most people don't eat enough fiber, eat way too much processed junk, and have vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Yet still the overall risk for colon cancer is surprisingly low and takes a long time to develop for everyone but the unluckiest.Earlier screenings are just compensating for poor education. It's not a solution to anything but the question of how to raise insurance costs for young people.Just eat your damn vegetables!

Qem: > Just eat your damn vegetables!At least if you can find some not previously doused in poison.

zvqcMMV6Zcr: My bet is on low-fiber diet and people spending half hour playing with phone instead of getting up from toilet.

freediddy: Ultra-marathoners have a 7x chance of getting colon cancer under 50. This is where it needs to be studied, maybe it's a common food or common supplement they are taking?

butILoveLife: After a ton of research, I think the generic suggestion 'Fiber' is not helpful.Some things to consider:>There are classifications of fiber, insoluable vs soluable>Even those classifications are overly generalized, and can/should be broken down into basically individual foods.>Fiber and the various types have impact on your gut bacteria. If your gut bacteria is bad, you might be fueling growth of bad bacteria.>You don't actually need fiber>You don't actually need a colon>I think gut bacteria management will probably be the next big thing. A combination of more scientific probiotics + fiber/prebiotics.>I'm guessing the colon cancer thing is probably due to pollutants. Not necessarily air, but could be from food.

imglorp: My money is on massive overexposure to high fructose corn syrup in the Western diet.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9170474/

damnesian: lack of fiber is a biggie too. Foods too highly processed. too many oils.

staticassertion: This is my personal bet. It's just low fiber diets.

hombre_fatal: > An estimated 95% of American adults and children fail to meet daily fiber recommendations, with intake often falling below 10 grams per 1,000 calories consumedIt's tempting to focus on some magic bad ingredient/practice to explain our bad health (like seed oils), but we don't exercise, we eat directly against dietary guidelines, and we eat foods that we know are bad for us.Now add on to that the social media grifters and industry advocates who tell you that eating poorly is good for you.I don't blame individuals just trying to live their life though. This is how we've let our whole food environment set up shop.

NotGMan: Focusing on fiber while leaving out glyphosate, sugar etc... is myopic.

hombre_fatal: I don't think I need to enumerate every way our diets are bad in an HN comment, do I? You didn't even want to do it.

anonymous344: the 1 reason for colon cancer is milk. it's not natural anymore and casein makes it's problems because the fat is altered by homogenization. second is whey and monsanto. third is canola oils. fourth is cirtric acid, it's not from citrus. and it's everywhere, in every beverage, juice and preserved food, even in beers.eat healthy my lads. trust not the media

dham: They need to lower the screening to 40. I just had mine at 40, turned out fine luckily. Did it without sedation which my doctor said was rare in US, but common outside of US. I found surprising, wasn't that big of a deal. Pain was probably at a 7/10 during the turns (like 3 times) but ok the rest of the time. A little uncomfortable. Some new sensations, some familiar (feeling like you are crapping your pants).I walked in and walked out no issue and went on about my day. Prep was fine but would be hard if I didn't work at home.

rootusrootus: With old school sedation I think it might be worth avoiding it. But with propofol you are out like a light, and then wake back up just as fast when they turn it off -- and it feels like you just had a nice nap. Aside from feeling a bit groggy for a few minutes, you just get up and walk out the door and go about your day. Personally, I do not think I'd volunteer for 7/10 pain just to avoid that.

zby: Hmm - but has its incidence increased or just other causes have fallen down faster?

zthrowaway: I think part of this can be attributed to prolonged gut inflammation caused by toxins and parasites. There’s something like 60% of the population has some form of parasite and have no idea, which causes a lot of inflammation and problems. Problems that don’t necessarily point to the gut being the culprit on the surface. So it’s misdiagnosed a lot.I recommend everyone do a gut cleanse once a year.

rubicon33: What do you mean when you say “do a gut cleanse”?

Pxtl: Amazing how everybody in this thread has posted their pet theories as to cause:- insufficient fibre - too much high fructose corn syrup - too much milk - too much citric acid - toxins and parasites (gut cleanse!) - washing chicken in chlorine (voiced as hypothetical) - ultra-marathoners - maybe their supplements and too much carbs or dehydration? - too much processed junk + vitamin and mineral deficiencies - radiation

rauljordan2020: So many folks that have it say things like "I was super healthy! Did exercise, young, don't drink, etc." Then you dig deeper and realize the last vegetable meal they ate was a soggy brussel sprout their mom made them when they were 17 years old, and also eat cold cut turkey sandwiches every lunch because they're "healthy", and maybe have a tiny shred of lettuce in the sandwich. For breakfast, they eat pancakes or sugary foods, and dinner is just a piece of steak

boringg: Are you serious? Do you really think thats the reason that this is happening -- that people don't just eat their veggies? Fiber is important but, um, that's a pretty hot take.

anonymous344: fenben, ivermect. herbs like blackseed oil, blac walnut, even organic cloves

kingkawn: I sacrifice a houseplant to baphomet as an alternative

gniv: The prep is by far the worst of it. I wish they could do it differently.

gavinray: I had a colonoscopy + upper endocoscopy a few months ago, age 29.The prep was horrible, particularly the electrolyte drink they make you take the night before. I almost puked several times trying to get that stuff down.Actual procedure was a breeze. I was sedated, and then I woke up and it was over.

hshdhdhj4444: If parasites was the concern then countries like Bangladesh would have incredibly higher rates given that people there tend to have orders of magnitudes more parasites than anywhere in the developed world.And I’m not sure what toxins is supposed to mean and how Americans are more exposed to toxins than developing world children scouring through our electronic garbage on a daily basis

freshpots: Sugar is 50:50 fructose:sugar and "high"-fructose sugar is 55:45. The slight difference in fructose:sugar between the two is not significant in terms of health outcomes, unless you mean sugar in general.

sandy_coyote: What is a gut cleanse? That sounds destructive.Doing an ambiguous preventive activity on 1 out of 365 days doesn't sound effective.

askonomm: Why would me sitting down cause colon cancer?

everdrive: Quite scary since we don't know what causes it. I know there are some intelligent guesses, but my understanding is that we don't have any hard proof.

ifwinterco: Yep, there is something going on here (some environment toxin that most/all of us are exposed to), but we don't know what it is

doubled112: I grew up in a fairly industrial area with lots of trades people around me. From my anecdata, I'd suspect you're right. The choices (personal and otherwise) I have seen can't be good for your body, and some you're simply not allowed to make anymore.Ironically, sitting on this laptop typing this might be as bad, but win some/lose some.But some obvious examples?Ever dip a shirt in benzene because it cools you down? Apparently it feels like Vicks, but doesn't leave that sticky feeling behind.They all drank 6+ beers a day. I know they must have eaten, but some I never saw consume food. At all.Some smoked a pack or two of cigarettes a day. Asbestos was in everything.There was no ventilation/filtration for welders, painters, woodworkers, etc. If you could open the shop door it was a good day.

unsupp0rted: [delayed]

gdulli: Throw return to office in there. You know it's coming eventually.

Pxtl: Call it: RTO causes colon cancer, or WFH causes colon cancer?

jabroni_salad: I usually stay out of health convos because it's just not my wheelhouse, but I think most people would benefit from extra fiber. It has an obvious direct benefit to your life the very next time you use the bathroom. I don't know if it is the answer to the rise of colon cancer but I do know it's worth doing irrespective of that.

kjkjadksj: I remember when that paper hit HN the thinking was actually to do with reduced bloodflow to the colon while running for long periods of time.

Pxtl: Hah, I've counted 10+ different intelligent(?) guesses in the replies.

Kye: I lean toward "people got better at not dying from everything else." It's plausible to me that it just enabled existing factors to unfold on the time scales they unfold on for more people.My handy heuristic for headlines like this: Is it a scary new trend or did other factors suppressing its natural emergence decline?

SapporoChris: CDC estimates about 60 million are effected by parasites in USA. which is about 17 or 18%.Gut cleanse, colon cleanse, detoxing. None of this is supported by science. Nor would any of these things cure, prevent or in anyway help a parasitic infection.Here are some common parasitic infections and how they're treated. None of these treatments recommend gut cleanse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardia#Infection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii#Treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascariasis#Treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookworm_infection#Treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinworm_infection#TreatmentGut inflammation can be a problem, but I would not recommend treating it or even diagnosing it without evidence.

ifwinterco: That's such a big disparity I'm very suspicious of that data, but there seems to be plenty of evidence that grossly excessive cardiovascular exercise is bad for you in various ways.If people enjoy it and really get a lot out of it then I wouldn't judge them for doing it, but let's not pretend it's healthy, because all the evidence is that it isn't.In terms of cardio being able to run a half decent 5k a couple of times a week is probably a good idea, any more volume than that is really not necessary and at some point becomes harmful

slibhb: Claiming that distance running is unhealthy is wild. It can lead to injury, and there's such thing as overtraining. But to claim that it's broadly unhealthy is just wrong

christophilus: Can't remember where I heard it-- some MD on a podcast recently-- but he mentioned distance running increases visceral fat in your muscles and around your organs when compared to HIIT and weight training, and visceral fat is generally a health risk indicator.

z9e: Yeah. Amazing how people on a forum are offering their opinions on something. Let’s point and laugh at them. /sI’m more amazed at the toxic (no pun intended) comments in this post. It seems HN isn’t a place to voice health theories.

vharuck: The trend has been upwards for invasive colorectal cancer among US residents under 50:https://seer.cancer.gov/statistics-network/explorer/applicat...

taeric: It has ticked up 1-2 per 100k over the past few decades for that group. Zoom the chart out, and you would probably be excused for assuming it is flat with some noise.By all means, we should study this more. But the way folks are talking about this is a touch nuts.

imglorp: It's partly the pervasiveness of that product because it's in fking everything in the US at least. Why is it in BREAD? https://www.thedailymeal.com/1306301/unhealthiest-store-boug...It's also the crazy amounts: we're accustomed to high levels of sweetness. Like 40g sugar in a can of soda.

John23832: It’s a humectant. And it subconsciously tastes good (yay capitalism).

boringg: It can't just be low fiber diets - there has to be some other exposures involved.

staticassertion: Why?

Jerrrrrrrry: Apt username from a person suggesting that non edible fiber is the nutrient causing illness and thats the presupposition we should argue against.Why would more fiber help?

staticassertion: Uh, what? I have not made a presuppositional argument. I made a statement about my epistemic state - ie: that I would "bet" on low fiber being the major contributor to colon cancer rates. Someone then asserted that it can't be that, and I asked "why?".> Why would more fiber help?Because there is an incredible amount of research into high fiber diets being good for your gut, including reduced colon cancer rates.

nativeit: As a Multiple Sclerosis patient since I was a teenager, let me just say: all you “healthy diet” zealots aren’t helping. Your advice on which blended kale and gogi berry smoothie I should try is cringe and annoying. Normally, the person is right in front of me, and well-intentioned, so I typically smile and politely thank them with a non-committal gesture towards trying it someday.But since this is all one-party and relatively anonymous, I’d like to take the opportunity to tell everyone that unless you have a PhD or MD in a relevant field, your thoughts about fiber are irrelevant and unwelcome to anyone actually suffering from the disease(s) in question.

Jerrrrrrrry: Lol your PhD got you this far, keep appealing to your PhD gods

cmcaleer: Gut cleanses are probably stupid but I wonder if people would benefit from taking antiparasitics prophylactically. It's not something I've ever done, but I eat sashimi pretty regularly and wonder if I should take something like praziquantel because I'm probably at risk for Japanese broad tapeworm, and the symptoms are mild enough I can't really tell without testing, but the price of actually testing is much higher than just taking a drug with a great safety profile.For similar reasons, I also wonder about people who consume raw milk. These people are more likely to endorse ivermectin for e.g. covid, because it made them feel much better. Maybe it's possible these people aren't lying about that, but not because it cured their covid.

JKCalhoun: My first colonoscopy was without anesthesia, and it was as described above. A little uncomfortable on the one bend, but I don't even think I would put it at 7/10 (perhaps a 4 or 5—but not a sharp pain, mind you).Definitely enjoyed the following times with anesthesia because, of course 0/10 as far as I know. Also, anesthesia just trips my mind—how seemingly time travel (going forward in time) seems to be involved.

staticassertion: You're on a discussion forum where the topic is colon cancer. Surely you understand that people are going to discuss it?It's a bit hard to tell from your post what you're saying. Certainly I can imagine being annoyed by constantly being given health advice from layman. But this is... a forum.

achandra03: I think this is probably due to people suffering from the just-world fallacy. Most folks like to believe that if you do the right things and consume the right stuff you'll have a long and healthy life when the fact of the matter is that luck/randomness plays a much larger role in your health than most people would like to admit.

nuodag: You’re probably right but it’s also true that that is a very (probably unintended) cruel worldview that thought to the end claims all those suffering had it coming, and as such deserves to be called out and those having it should reconsider.

dbspin: One hundred percent. I work in film, and recently had an argument with a friend around this point. He's incredibly healthy, and frequently works a large number of unsociable hours. I was pointing out that filmmaking hours make no concession for family or age. He'd convinced himself that he'll have no more difficulty doing 80 hour weeks in his forties and fifties than he does in his mid thirties, because he 'takes care of himself'. The implication being that everyone could work those hours if they just ate better and held multiple martial arts belts as he does. It was no use pointing out that he'd confused cause and effect.

Rebuff5007: I dont think this is right... most people I know care more about not doing the "wrong" thing than feeling entitled for doing the "right" thing.

jancsika: > As a Multiple Sclerosis patient since I was a teenager, let me just say: all you “healthy diet” zealots aren’t helping.I don't understand the relevance to the article. Does Multiple Sclerosis come with a higher risk of colon cancer?

ericmcer: You can control your luck a bit though. Granted you could be in perfect health but roll a 1 five times in a row and get a heart attack when you are 40. Or you could be crushing junk food and alcohol but you just keep rolling 6s and make it to 80.If you look at the sequence of events that happen to trigger a heart attack, it becomes really clear how big a role luck is, but still you can mitigate each step. Studying this stuff also makes your body seem like a walking time bomb.

ifwinterco: Risk of stroke is the most obvious (and fairly concerning) one where there's solid data.Also there's "distance running" as in running maybe 50k a week, that's probably okay, although as you get older it will increase your risk of stroke. But ultramarathons are a whole different ball game and almost certainly bad for you

slibhb: Can you link the data? I don't buy it.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11720530/ says there's a higher rate of AF in older, male althetes but a lower risk of stroke compared to similar aged, non-athletes.At any rate, the data doesn't seem clear enough to claim that "distance running bad for you" or "any distance over 50K is bad for you".

ifwinterco: I'm struggling to find it but I definitely remember reading a paper that claimed that aerobic exercise in over 60s decreased heart attack risk (which is good, obviously) but increased stroke risk.I think the biggest risk though is acutely doing high intensity exercise (e.g. a marathon) whereas doing low intensity regular exercise (e.g. a 5k jogged at moderate pace 4x a week) is probably good.So it's not "running is bad", it's more "running insane distances and/or running at insanely high intensity is bad", but the issue is a lot of people who get really into running end up doing one or both of those things.One sign that marathons (let alone ultramarathons) may not be particularly healthy is that the first guy to do one famously died, and then subsequently people die doing them every single year. Yes the risk is low overall, but that doesn't mean it's actually good for you

slibhb: > One sign that marathons (let alone ultramarathons) may not be particularly healthy is that the first guy to do one famously died, and then subsequently people die doing them every single yearI don't find this line of thinking terribly convincingIt's well known that (even young) elite athletes with unknown inborn heart defects sometimes die after extreme exertion. But it doesn't really follow that "extreme exertion is bad for you," the lurking variable is the heart defect.