Discussion

jonahs197: Hacker News?

zeroonetwothree: Very entertaining post. I’ve only been to a small number of national parks but I do agree they aren’t especially nicer than some of the non-national park places I’ve been. My favorite is probably Point Lobos (a mere “state” park).

impendia: I live in South Carolina, about half an hour from Congaree National Park.It's not a place you'd drive across the country to see, but it's beautiful and highly worth a visit. There are some freaky trees -- with knobs of roots that stick out from the ground, like nothing else I've seen. The place is kinda creepy, as if you're about to be attacked by zombies, and I love that.There is a two mile elevated boardwalk which takes you around some of the most scenic areas of the park, and further hiking trails which branch off of that. There is also a river that goes through the park, and it's quite atmospheric in a canoe.

slackfan: Please stay in your concrete box and never leave.

visiohex: The ironic thing about the "best" national parks these days is that they are so overcrowded the experience can be genuinely miserable. I would gladly take a "sub-par" or boring park where I can actually be alone with nature over sitting in a two-hour traffic jam in Yosemite or Yellowstone just to see a tree.

rseech01: I was hoping to see his thoughts on the Everglades. His hate is strong.

notpachet: If you haven't tortured yourself on the Devil's Corkscrew switchbacks on the Bright Angel Trail at the Grand Canyon, on the hottest day of summer, have you really National Parked??All joking aside, I disagree with the author regarding the Grand Canyon. Havasupai Gardens -- the verdant oasis at the bottom of the canyon, where you can camp and recharge -- is one of my favorite places I've camped. There are areas for wading and swimming, and the sounds of the night creatures is eerily beautiful.

SkipperCat: I hiked and camped for three days in the Grand Canyon about 10 years ago and it was one of the high points of my life. The sheer beauty of the massive space was transformative in the way I see the world. How small we are, how big it was. I know statements like this seem overly dramatic but my time there is still something I replay in my head.So when people dunk on the GC, I always just tell myself how lucky I was that my experience was so wonderful.

1970-01-01: Now do Canada!

spprashant: First I am hearing of Gateway Arch national park, and I am very confused why it's a national park?

lamasery: IIRC the story is it basically predates when they figured out exactly what a "national park" is supposed to be as distinct from other kinds of national-whatever, and it stuck.Similar story for the one in Arkansas I think. Both would probably have some other designation if they were created today.

al_borland: As someone who doesn’t hike or camp, I didn’t really enjoy the Grand Canyon.When I was 18 my dad thought it would be cool to take me there for a week. I suggested we just stop there briefly, then go skiing in Colorado, which he accepted.We got to the Grand Canyon and it was so big that it didn’t even look real. I was pretty much done after 30 minutes, so was my dad. He was glad I suggested the Colorado option, as he wasn’t sure what we’d do there all week.I’m glad I saw it, so I’ll never wonder, but I’m also glad I didn’t try and make it into more than it was, as a non-camper.

khuey: Because Congress and Trump said so in 2018.

iambateman: I also live about half an hour from Congaree. I wish it was a state park…it’d be on everyone’s list of “coolest state parks.”It doesn’t have the same wow factor as other national parks, but it’s a special place for sure.See you at the fireflies!

jobs_throwaway: > Every day hike in Zion Canyon is kind of like waiting in line at Disney World. You’re waiting in line in a magical place, but you’re still waiting in line. You ask a dead-eyed park ranger to recommend you a less popular hike, and he spits in your face. There is no such thing as a less-popular hike in Zion Canyon. You will wait in line on the trail and you will be grateful you piece of shit.Yeah, you can safely disregard anything this idiot says. This is simply not true. When I did the Zion traverse we went a full day without seeing people at one point, never waited in line. If you want to the Disneyland version, yeah it'll be crowded.

swasheck: must be a seasonal thing. i’ve never seen nobody but have also never seen disney.

mstudio: Thank you for this -- I needed a laugh today. I do have to say that we visited Zion in Nov and it was amazing -- beautiful weather and no crowds. I think it's all about timing.

antonymoose: I’m from the Lowcountry, live in the Upstate now. Kayaking through Congaree is one of my top memories as a Boy Scout. Incredibly beautiful in a way you don’t get most anywhere else. Feels like you’ve travelled back in time to some Jurassic age going through the tree covered channels. Just keep an eye out for the snakes!

sudosteph: State parks are where it's at.But love the Gatlinburg aside. It's like Myrtle Beach, but worse. The Blue Ridge mountains have amazing natural beauty for miles in every direction. So many great towns too - Blowing Rock, Boone, Asheville, Maggie Valley, (hopefully Chimney Rock will be back on that list someday). Why anyone would pick Gatlinburg to visit is beyond me.

wavefunction: In form it approximates a classic "park" more than the sort of national parks you and I probably think of. I like the idea of diversity in our national parks and public lands. Some could focus on history and education, others on naturalism and ecology, others could mix and match as needed. Urban national parks seem like a fine idea and a way to encourage urban populations to explore more public lands outside of their cities too, eventually. To build a nation of parks and gardens would be laudable.

mrkaye97: as someone who likes to hike, this is such an asinine post

throwway120385: I've been to Yellowstone in the off season and can confirm that as long as you go when US public school is generally in session you will not see very many other people, especially if you attempt hikes that are not boardwalks directly on the main park loop.

InUrNetz: I went to Congaree last week. It was pleasant, I would go again, we ended up hiking a bit over 5 miles on a beautiful day. Bugs were not an issue. Also saw Fort Sumter and USS Yorktown, went to a drive through Animal Safari, saw Biltmore in Asheville and drove on the Blue Ridge Parkway. Throw in a few state parks, saw a movie, had a few good meals and it was a pretty good road trip / van camping experience for my daughter and I.

robrain: Went to one park, in the pre-madness epoch, near San Francisco. Enjoyed it. Bought the national guide book, intending to make sure I visited as many more as possible and get my little book filled with stamps. Went home to Canada.Oh well, visiting one park was fun. I’ll go and enjoy the superior Canadian and European parks instead (the ones in countries that welcome visitors, and whose parks don’t generally charge more for tourists), maybe even further afield. But the guide book’s single stamp will be lonely for the foreseeable.

jackconsidine: > Can you hike in the Grand Canyon? Yes, technically. You can walk along the rim, but the view won’t change; same damn canyon on one side, same damn parking lot on the other. There are trails that go down into the canyon, but they’re a trap. They are featureless steep inclines formed into endless switchbacks, and when they finally end, there’s nothing to do except go back up, which will be just as boring but three times as hard and might kill you.I’ve seen enough. From the Midwest so was looking forward to a takedown of the dunes (or something witty craptowns esq). but dunking on the GC for being a canyon?The “non superlative” is largest canyon by volume

microtonal: We went a lot to the US in my teenage years. I have been to the Grand Canyon two or three times (you start losing counts at some point).One time we were there with our family and my aunt/uncle + kids. We hiked down the canyon because my dad was sort of the group leader and he goes on such adventures without necessarily thinking it through.So we went down with a small amount of water and food. I heard sometime years after that you have to pay to go down the Grand Canyon, but this was in the nineties and it was a quiet part of the Grand Canyon, not much to do. We hiked down, stayed inside the canyon for a bit to eat and drink and then we went up again.And that's where the differences started. My dad was still undeterred and went up in high speed like it was nothing. We were young, fit teenagers and for us the climb was more than usual, but pretty doable. The rest of the adults... not so much. At least one family member was crying, others were swearing (without swearing, polite people) about the predicament my dad put us in.I am not sure why I am telling this, I guess... go in prepared?The Grand Canyon was nice, but I never loved it. I think my expectations were pretty big because it's so well-known, so it was a bit anti-climatic. I really liked Monument Valley, there was virtually no other tourist when we were there and it was stunning, even better than in the Lucky Luke comics [1] that we read as a kid. As I teenager I also loved White Sands. In contrast to the author I did really like Petrified Forest.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Luke

deepsquirrelnet: > Cuyahoga Valley: There is nothing wrong with Cuyahoga Valley. Statistically, you’re from Ohio, so why not?In college, I took an interim elective course on geology of the national parks. On the first day of class, the professor asked an icebreaker for students to say which national park they lived closest to. I said Ohio - Cuyahoga Valley.Well some snot nosed boy scout confidently piped up that there were mostly certainly no national parks in Ohio, and the professor agreed. This is a deep personal grudge that I still hold to this day.

Guthwine: Dry-nosed Eagle Scout here to relieve you of your grudge. There is of course as you know a national park in Ohio and it is wonderful. Grew up right along its edge, and I'm forever grateful for it!

Aurornis: This article was either written to be clickbait, or written by the kind of person who can find a way to be unhappy in any situation.The article is safely ignored.

BeetleB: His experiences mirrors most people's I know. They all told me - go to it if you have the extra time, otherwise The southern Utah parks are much better.

BenFranklin100: “I’m pretty content to say that North America absolutely mogs the rest of the world in national parks. “This is exactly what a European friend remarked to me years ago. He thought us Americans were a bit unaware of just how good we had it compared to the rest of the world.

ekr____: I mostly agree with this, but... if you're a hiker or a trail runner the alps really are amazing, and the infrastructure is far better than in the States. Once you get outside of really built up places like Yosemite Valley, the trails in the US basically are out in the middle of nowhere and so you're carrying all your stuff. For example, if you do John Muir Trail, there's basically nothing between Muir Trail Ranch and Whitney Portal, so you're looking at 100+ miles of carrying your own stuff.By contrast, many European trails have huts/refugios every 10 or so miles, so you can stop and get a coffee or a meal, or even stay the night. This means that not only do you not need to carry a lot of food you may not even need to carry your own shelter, which lowers the weight considerably. There is some stuff like this in the US, for instance the High Sierra Camps [0], but it's not the norm and it's not cheap (~200 USD/night).[0] https://www.travelyosemite.com/lodging/high-sierra-camps

oliver236: don't call him an idiot, this goes against HN's policy.

oliver236: why are people downvoting me?

MarkusWandel: Back when I was younger and challenges were mostly mental, I did participate in a group hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon (via the Hermit trail). Yes, the hike back up was tough, but we had two nights' camp out at the bottom, right by the river, in what for us Canadians was pleasant August type climate, while we had started in a bit of snow at the top (late October) and the rest day was beautiful.During the hike and stay at the bottom we encountered about half a dozen other people. It really was grand.In Yosemite, all you have to do is outhike the "Reebok hikers" as we called them back then. An hour's serious walk gives you relative solitude.And in Zion, last time we were there, a couple of us did not do Angels Landing. Instead we went to another spot equally high up where it was peaceful and quiet, and took telephoto pictures of the others on Angels Landing (note: I've been up there and it's awesome, but in that terrain a crowd sounds scary).

ekr____: > In Yosemite, all you have to do is outhike the "Reebok hikers" as we called them back then. An hour's serious walk gives you relative solitude.You actually don't even need to do this if you park somewhere other than Yosemite Valley. For example, Tenaya Lake is nice and not that far in on Tioga Road.

bombcar: There's a statistic that floats around which may be apocryphal - something like 90% of visitors to national parks don't get more than a 5-15 minute walk from the parking lot (and some literally never leave the car).National parks are huge and you can quickly literally get lost forever in them (which is an actual danger, stay on the trails!) if you're willing to walk.Some of them have very obvious "goals" to see (the geyser, the half-dome) which of course are high traffic, but others are beautiful "all over" and taking the treks is worth it.

BeetleB: I actually strongly recommend Mammoth Caves National Park. They also have nice trails on the outside (within the park).The caves are grand. But just keep in mind: You will not see stalactites/stalagmites there. For that, there's a cave tour right outside of Mammoth Caves (I forgot the name) - it has plenty of them.

arvid-lind: Not helping your case here, it's also against the guidelines to talk about the votes on comments.

oliver236: as in you don't want to help my case? or i am not helping my own case?

reluctant_dev: I have gone in the summer once and it was busy but still an amazing experience. I have been twice in the winter/off season (they clear the roads right after snow!) and we had the park basically to ourselves. Was absolutely fantastic.

jcranmer: The Everglades mostly aren't as mosquito-infested as Congaree. Except for Flamingo, which feels like it's the mosquito capital of the world.

NoNameHaveI: You CLEARLY have never been to Wisconsin or the Upper Peninsula in summer.

bombcar: Alaska says "Hi!"

dansitu: I knew this guy was not worth listening to when he wrote "a solid five hours away from absolutely anything else you might want to see or do". I live in Charleston, two hours away and at the heart of the Lowcountry, one of the most historically fascinating and beautiful places in the world. And a couple of hours in the other direction are the Blue Ridge Mountains!

floren: Ah, Baden-Powell's Principle proves itself true yet again: How can you tell if somebody was an Eagle Scout? Don't worry, he'll tell you immediately.

fooker: Seems like the author simply does not like traveling to see things?Most of the article seems like minor annoyances that you take for granted.

jmye: It just read like a mediocre attempt at channeling Maddox-era internet humor, honestly.

colejohnson66: We once did a hike from Chamberlain's Ranch down. No one else for 10+ miles until we reached the switchbacks at the end. It really depends on where you go.

deeg: Agreed. I've been to zion many times and the rangers have never been anything but helpful. A while back a ranger recommended a hike with few people and now I do it every visit.It is crowded, which is a bummer, but still a great experience.

sizzzzlerz: The NPS has large signs posted at the Bright Angel and Kaibab trailheads on the south rim warning visitors about the dangers of the trail, the heat, the steepness, the lack of shade. It is made abundantly clear that even a modest hike requires conditioning, water, appropriate shoes, and protection from the sun. They even have rangers patrolling the trails assessing hikers they pass and questioning those they believe are going to have trouble. Unfortunately, they can only recommend, not enforce. With all that, people run into difficultly and have to be hauled out. Sometimes, they die. As Ron White has said, you can't fix stupid.

BigTTYGothGF: You're not supposed to write down the unwritten rules.

john_strinlai: people agree with the top comment, so they are totally cool with the insult and will downvote anyone calling it out.if they disagreed with the comment, everyone would flag it for having an insult and you'd be getting upvotes instead.

librasteve: what about people who get confused by the nested comments, can we comment?

samdixon: Gatlinburg is not my thing... but is significantly better than Myrtle Beach.

sudosteph: Really? Agree to disagree. At least in MB I can bike around, get in the ocean, and pig out on seafood. It's not classy, but at least it's cheap. I would never fly there, but as a weekend trip from Charlotte, it's not terrible bang-for-buck at all. Though I'm sure nostalgia from going there frequently as a child is coloring my view.What do you prefer about Gatlinburg?

unzadunza: I also did one of the hikes to the CO river in the 90s with 3 friends when we were in college. We got off to a late start so jogged down a good deal of the way (dumb). We carried a 1 gallon water jug each (not even close to enough). We had no extra clothing (dumb). Two of us (me being one) made it out that day. The other two didn't. A group of smart hikers with water filters and iodine tablets found them belly up on the path in the direct sunlight. I'm certain they would have died if the hikers didn't give them tablets, water and emergency blankets. Man we were dumb.

ekr____: If you are fit, you can absolutely do this. In fact, you can go all the way to the other rim and back (rim-to-rim-to-rim). The current record is sub 6 hrs by Ultrarunner Jim Walmsley. [0]https://fastestknowntime.com/route/grand-canyon-crossings-az