Discussion

hwhshs: It exists. Linkedin seems to have such jobs.

BelVisgarra: That’s true, platforms like LinkedIn try to verify companies. What I’m more curious about is whether people would value deeper verification of the actual job posting itself, not just the company.

antonymoose: What makes a job verified in this case? You can easily verify a firm exists, but that’s not really the critical part. The question “is this a ghost job with no intention to be filled” is the real struggle.

BelVisgarra: Good point. Verifying that a company exists is relatively easy, but confirming that the role is actually open and actively being hired for is definitely harder. I was thinking verification could include confirming the recruiter’s identity and requiring employers to periodically confirm that the position is still active. Ghost jobs are definitely an important challenge.

1123581321: Probably not, as you’d essentially be performing the function of a recruiter, but not providing the ability for applicants to skip the initial steps of the hiring process by talking to you. Recruiters already list their open jobs in board-like software.

raw_anon_1111: No.A job being “verified” doesn’t solve the main problem post around 2023. Every single job opening gets hundreds of openings within the first day of it being opened.If you are looking for a job as any type of generic developer - full stack, front end, mobile, back end, it’s almost impossible to stand out from the crowd. No, “I reversed a btree on the whiteboard to get into big tech as a mid level developer” doesn’t make you special.If you do have a specialized set of skills that allows you to stand out from the crowd, you still shouldn’t be randomly spamming job boards and you should be able to sell yourself to someone at the company.My personal anecdote. In my specialty - AWS + app dev + leading strategic initiatives, I’m very well credentialed (trust me on this) and in a certain niche of AWS, I was considered one of the industry experts at the time (again trust me).But when randomly spamming job boards on a lark in 2023, I heard nothing.That was always a plan B while I was waiting for what ended up being three offers via my network and one by reaching out to a company who specialized in my niche of AWS.I’m not bragging, I am old. I should have a network and credentials.

fogzen: I want a job board that can filter companies like ATS filters candidates. I want to know salary, benefits, equity comp, tech stack, and workflow practices like CI, test suite time, test coverage, meetings per week, etc.

BelVisgarra: That’s an interesting point. Transparency about things like salary, tech stack, and engineering practices would probably make job boards much more useful. It sounds like verification alone might not be enough without better information about the role.

hwhshs: Hmm. That is a hard one. Not sure how you verify it is a genuine job or the JD is accurate. Id like it but not sure it is possible.

pavel_lishin: > confirming the recruiter’s identity and requiring employers to periodically confirm that the position is still active.If a position is only listed due to a requirement, and is already basically guaranteed to someone making an internal transfer, knowing the recruiter's identity and having a manager pinky-swear the job offer is real does nothing.

bitfilped: No, I don't use job boards.

tryauuum: Jesus christ, AWS has nichesThis shouldn't surprise me, knowledge of a code base is a competitive advantage. But there is just something depressing about it. Maybe it being closed source and you having to learn it by being burned by undocumented behavior? Please tell more

moralestapia: The answer is yes, and I speak for everybody. People use job boards anyway, why not use another one with the +1 that, at least, you won't get scammed.Everyone likes to pretend this and that, "I wouldn't do it", "what problem do you solve", etc. I've published many jobs and they all come like hyenas fighting over scraps.Don't listen to them, just build the thing; they'll use it, they need the bread, lmao.

hmokiguess: What’s an example of a job scam? How does the scammer benefits from it? I have never heard of this, just looking to learn more about it.

SlightlyLeftPad: For one, it’s a form of personal information harvesting. People tend to apply with non-burner accounts

raw_anon_1111: It’s Amazon Connect - a popular hosted call center solution ported to AWS from Amazon Retail. There are people and companies that do nothing but Amazon Connect. But that’s all they know. I’m a developer first with well rounded experience with AWS.I talked a little bit about Connect here:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47241412I worked at AWS ProServe / their internal consulting department - full time blue badge RSU earning employee - and I was one of the highest contributors to a popular at the time open source “AWS Solution” around Connect and I had my own open source projects published under AWS’s open source GitHub organization.BTW, I would never use the “solution” now. There are a lot better ways to do it post gen AI.The thing was, it was years before AWS introduced APIs around Connect and even longer before they have CloudFormation support. I was the first to use those APIs at scale for clients and found and reported bugs to the team while I was there’s

tmh88j: >A job being “verified” doesn’t solve the main problem post around 2023. Every single job opening gets hundreds of openings within the first day of it being opened.vettery.com, which turned into hired.com, seemed to have a pretty good system that felt like the bumble approach, where employers would reach out to you with interview requests rather than candidates applying to roles. You had to pass some fairly easy leedcode-like tests to even be able to join the platform. Once in you create a profile including what kind of role you were looking for, salary range, and some general likes and dislikes regarding technologies you work with. iirc they had some models to match candidates to employers, but not sure how well that worked from the employer's side of thing. It looks like they've been sold again and completely dropped that model. Too bad, I liked the approach and got a couple jobs through it.

BelVisgarra: That definitely makes things harder. Roles posted for internal transfers or compliance reasons are tricky because they may never have been intended for external candidates. Maybe verification would need signals showing that the role is actually open to external applicants. I wonder if something like an “externally open role” label would help.

neom: https://www.news.google.com/search?q=ghost+jobs - ghost jobs are a real problem - I don't know if this is the solution.

hmokiguess: and I assume the value here would be some data broker deal? feels odd to me still

dzonga: what's the value add ?what are you offering to candidates - a better interview experience (been tried before etc, those companies closed)you want to solve a problem, however you are trying solve the problem at a wrong abstraction level -the problem with the tech market hiring is a coordination problem

BelVisgarra: I see what you mean about it being a coordination problem. Do you think the main issue is that job boards create too much noise — hundreds of applications — instead of helping companies and candidates find better matches? If that's the case, what kind of system do you think would improve that coordination?

lazypenguin: Yes, we recently posted for an entry/mid level position and we got 1800 applications in a few days. It’s impossible to filter the list, I spent several hours to see how feasible it was and after getting through maybe 150 applications I gave up. We’re a small team, we don’t have the resources to cut through the noise without just blanket rejecting people. There doesn’t need to be a board that vets jobs, there needs to be a board that vets candidates and makes it easier for companies find their ideal candidate.

pluc: Verified how?The poster has an account? NoThe poster has confirmed an email address? NoThe poster has a confirmed email address that is associable to the business? MaybeThe poster has a confirmed email address that is associable to the business and their name is verifiable as HR/Hiring Manager/Someone in a legitimate position to post this offer? Sure

spy888: You have to think through the applicant issue. As a hiring manager every time I post a job i get hundreds of applicants and most are not viable for different reasons. A verified listing does nothing to help me deal with the influx of low quality and fake applicants.

fortran77: There's two sides to this. Companies need to be able to make sure they're able to locate (and not miss) viable candidates. But job-seekers need to know there's a legitimate company and an actual job. There are many job scams out there, especially for entry level, low-skill jobs.In my early days, I once went through three interviews for a small "start up." On the third round, the founder admitted he couldn't pay me in anything but "equity" even though I specifically asked about funding and compensation on the first interview. (I got a very early "Craigs List" to pull the job listing--with an personal reply from Craig Newmark--and the "employer" settled with me for several thousand after I sent a demand letter and filed a claim in Santa Clara County small claims court for fraud.)

siliconc0w: Cyrpto had some interesting takes on these sort of problems that we haven't really applied more broadly.The way I'd design a job board is require the applicant to escrow X and the job poster to escrow Y*X. Y is is the trust ratio. Given a bad experience, either the side can 'burn' the other and send both escrowed amounts to charity. An okay trust ratio might be 10, meaning they'll give you 10:1 burn ratio. A good one might be 100 or 1000. At that point they are essentially handing you a big stick to beat them with if they misbehave.This would entirely eliminate spam and ghost jobs - suddenly everyone would be magically really responsive and polite.

maxaw: Curious - are there not good tools for filtering through applications? there must be a lot of llm related offerings

smnscu: Otta in the UK (now eaten by the inexplicably-named Welcome to the Jungle) used to have a very involved vetting process during company onboarding, and I could verify that it was a great service as both a candidate and a hiring manager. To replicate what you want ("every listing is verified") there's no silver bullet but a good vetting process like that goes a long way.Another site I like is cord.com, which seems to prioritise companies where recruiters are active on that website, I've had a good experience with that one as well, as you get to chat with an actual recruiter in a matter of hours or days.

sdevonoes: 99% of the engineers out there are generic ones (including myself)… and most of us are working.

raw_anon_1111: If you take away my AWS account and my ability to “add on to what Becky said” and “look at things from a 1000 foot view”, I am a “generic developer” and was one for 25 years.That doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that “generic developers” are a dime a dozen and it’s hard to stand out from the crowd using an ATS. I just said I had the same issue when experimenting with ATS’s.

1970-01-01: Hiring is so broken that this just isn't enough. We really need an IETF RFC for open positions. A full-blown TCP-like protocol for an open position, with TTL, SYN ACK handshakes, and data encryption. Anything else is half-assing it. I'm only half joking. It's pretty bad today.