Discussion

I tried to prove I'm not AI. My aunt wasn't convinced

Tepix: Here's a free business idea:Perhaps we need tamper proof authenticated cameras in all major cities worldwide that publish a livestream 24/7 and you can then stand in front of them to prove your human existance...This could be something that notaries around the world could offer as a service.

nicbou: I heard that in France, they'd use postal office workers to verify people's IDs. It's a brilliant alternative to whatever we're doing in Germany.

taylodl: This is why you need a phrase that you've never shared in a text or on social media that you can use so your family knows it's you. Especially to protect them from scammers pretending to be you.

sam_lowry_: A password, you mean?

eesmith: The text calls it a codeword:> The solution the world's leading experts have landed on is one your grandparents could have come up with: codewords. You, your family, business partners and anyone else you communicate with about important subjects need to come up with a secret phrase that no-one else knows you can use in an emergency to verify each other's identities. Think of it like a convoluted form of the multi-factor authentication we all use to login online.> "My wife and I have a codeword that we use if we ever get an unusual call," Farid says. "We haven't needed to use it yet, but sometimes I ask just to test her to make sure we don't forget it."

forkerenok: > At first, my aunt wasn't buying that any AI was involved. [...] There was a long pause. "I was like 90% sure," she said, hesitating. "But that sounded more artificial."There is a thing about many people. I don't remember the phenomenon's name, if it has one, but it goes like this:Given enough time to reconsider options, people will be endlessly flip-flopping between them grabbing onto various features over and over in a loop.

vasco: There's also another phenomenon which is that whatever the latest idea is, it must be the best. Many people do this mistake and even convince themselves of being right now because "they used to think like that" before.So at each stage in the loop they are always super convinced of the position.

exitb: Or in general, a way to digitally sign a tamper-free video recoding made with a camera from a reputable manufacturer. Maybe a regular iPhone already has enough integrity checks and security contexts to achieve this.

Quekid5: Analysis Paralysis?

theshrike79: More like a Shibboleth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth

sph: Dissonance between what you instinctively believe and what you think the other person wants you to say.Easy to replicate by asking someone something obvious, like the weather, and when they reply ask “are you sure?” - they won’t be so sure any more (believing it’s a trick question)If I ask my mother if I’m real, she’ll have a pause because she has never had to entertain such a question, or the possibility her son over the phone isn’t real.

tjpnz: We used to have something similar in NZ. Got removed eventually because of flashing.

bandrami: In the broad sense of a shared secret, yes

mrlnstk: Don't we have PostIdent in Germany? At least I used it to open my bank account.

BoppreH: Paradox of choice? It's more related to the number of choices and the impact on people's anxiety, but it's close.

FinnKuhn: What are we doing in Germany?The options I have seen so far were a) using our digital IDs, which is very handy or b) having a bank verify my identity in person with my ID, which is also pretty good.

Zinu: Isn’t that just like Postident in Germany?

armchairhacker: And LLMs (https://arxiv.org/html/2311.08596v2)

jrjeksjd8d: We couldn't possibly employ people to solve the problem. Don't you know the post office is a waste of money?

monster_truck: How exactly would this make money

onion2k: Given enough time to reconsider options, people will be endlessly flip-flopping between them grabbing onto various features over and over in a loop.People will default to believing something is AI if there's no downside to that opinion. It's a defence mechanism. It stops them being 'caught out' or tricked into believing something that's not true.As soon as there's a potential loss (e.g. missing out on getting rich, not helping a loved one) people will switch off that cynical critical thinking and just fall for AI-driven scams.This is the downside of being a human being.

kalaksi: Or just find a shared memory/moment not available on the internet when in doubt. I don't think people will be that eager to remember another passphrase.

V-2: This phenomenon (or a closely related one?) is recognized and known as Kotov Sydnrome in the context of chess.A summary, courtesy of chess dot com:> The name of this "syndrome" comes from GM Alexander Kotov, author of the classic chess book Think Like a Grandmaster. In the book, Kotov described an incorrect yet very common calculation process that often leads players to select a suboptimal or bad move.> According to Kotov, in positions where the lines are complex and there are numerous candidate moves and variations to calculate, it's easy to make a hasty move. A player in that situation might spend too much time going over two moves and all of their ramifications without finding a favorable ending position. In that process, the player is likely to go back and forth between the two different lines, always coming to the same unsatisfying conclusion—this wastes precious mental energy and time.> After spending too much time evaluating the first two options, the player gives up the calculation due to time pressure or fatigue and plays a third move without calculating it. According to the author, that sort of move can cause tremendous blunders and cost the game.

catlifeonmars: [delayed]

Kye: This is the basis of the virtual kidnapping scam/grandparent scam, or panic manipulation more generally. The manufactured urgency keeps them from doubting: the voice on the phone being off is just fear, or a bad connection, for example.I have personally intervened in one of those when I heard someone reading off a 6 digit number.

a2128: AI companies love to hype up how AI will provide a great benefit to the economy and transform intellectual labor, but I hardly see any discussion about how much damage it will cause to the economy when you can no longer trust that you're on a video call with an actual person. Maybe the person you're interviewing is actually an AI impersonating someone, or maybe they never existed in the first place. Information found online will also no longer be trustable, footage of some incident somewhere may have been entirely fabricated by AI, and we already experience misleading articles today.Money will have to be wasted on unnecessary flights to see stuff or meet people in-person instead of video, and the availability of actual information will become more and more limited as the sea of online information gets polluted with crap. It may never be possible to calculate the full extent of the damage in monetary value.

whateverboat: What's the solution apart from an identity providing service?

Gigachad: I’m seeing a huge increase in companies requiring in person interviews now. Seems there is a real possibility the internet as we know it will be destroyed.

dominotw: linkedin is completely destroyed now. There are tons of ai bots there but real humans are now fronts for AI. So you cant even trust content from from ppl you know.identity serivce is not useful because that person might be a real person but they might just be a pipe to ai like we see on linkedin.

roflmaostc: Partially agree. However, this problem has existed with scam e-mails since the 90s.For me the solution is in signed e-mails and signed documents. If the person invites me to a online meeting with a signed e-mail, I trust that person that it's really them.Same for footage of wars, etc. The journalist taking it basically signs the videos and verifies it's authenticity. It is AI generated, then we would loose trust in that person and wouldn't use their material anymore.

rkomorn: I think you might be right and I think I'll like some of the consequences and hate some of the others.More in-person stuff feels like a win to me (and I say this as someone who probably counts as introverted).Not being able to trust any online interactions anymore? Seems like a new height in what was already a negative.