Discussion

Take Better Notes, By Hand

avgDev: I retain information better when taking notes by hand. However, being able to attach an image and search is absolutely required for me, hence why I use digital notes at work.I can keep years of notes in a file which I can take and access anywhere whenever I want.

coldcity_again: I love taking notes by hand for better retention, but (my) longhand is just too slow. It's also an inconvenient format for representing a hierachy or graph of connections.Anyone else into what my high school biology teacher loved referring to as "pseudo-arachnomorphic diagrams" (Mind Maps[1] / Spider Diagrams)?They're still my primary paper-based realtime note taking method. They seemed to get a lot of attention a couple of decades ago, but I don't hear them mentioned much recently.Lots of online/local Mind Map tools available, but I've never really gelled with them (though you do get self-organisation of the nodes!). Once in the digital realm I'm more likely to make notes in Markdown.[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map

ModernMech: This is all good advice but one thing it doesn't touch on is: which pen and notebook?I like the pilot precision v5 pens because they come in a lot of different colors and the point is very fine.For notebooks, I prefer the Leuchtturm 1917 series. They come with page numbers, a space for TOC, a pocket in the back for stuff, two book marks, and lots of different sizes and colors and page layouts.That's important because the other important thing about hand notes for me is one book per topic, and keep them different colors because they will pile up and it helps with differentiating them.

sonicrocketman: I've blogged about this before too!https://brianschrader.com/archive/the-practicals-of-writing-...But I'm in the process of upgrading my pen. I ordered a TWISB ECO.

cratermoon: There are ways to write that are faster and more legible. I recommend looking into the Getty-Dubay style.

railgunmerlin: anyone try e-ink style tablets (like remarkable?) the form factor/ability to backup is attractive to me but the price tag is a bit nuts...

stronglikedan: [delayed]

stronglikedan: My coworker got the reMarkable 2 about four years ago now, and was really into it when he got it. I had sort of forgotten about it until the other day when I was reconsidering whether I wanted to get one. When I asked him about it, he was just as enthusiastic as when I asked him years ago. It was sitting right next to him ready to go, with notes from that same day on the screen. Just an anecdote to consider.

JohnFen: I tried various ones out over the course of a few years, but in the end found they weren't for me and I went back to using paper notebooks.I won't say they're bad solutions at all, but just that they brought no actual benefits for my use cases so there wasn't a reason to put up with their downsides. The downsides are relatively minor, though. For me, they are cost, the need to charge yet another device, and the inconvenience of the form factor (you can't tear pages out to hand to someone else, they rigid tablets instead of flexible paper, writing on them isn't the most pleasant thing, etc.)

wduquette: I love the Leuchtterm 1917s. They've got everything you say, and they hold up under daily use without falling apart.As for pens, I use the Uniball Jetstream 0.38 ballpoint--fine point, doesn't skip, and I prefer ballpoints. I used a Coleto Hitec C multi-pen for a while, but the refills are skinny and run out of ink quickly, and I like the feel of the Jetstream ballpoint better. (The refills for the regular Coleto Hitec are much thicker and last a lot longer...but skip horribly. Life is too short.)

pklausler: If you like Leuchtterm, you'll love Quo Vadis Habana notebooks, if you can find them in stock.

JLO64: What ink are you gonna pair with that? I’m not a lefty, but I’ve heard fast drying FP inks are best for writing with a left hand to prevent smudging.

h45x1: There is also the question of real estate. I can have several paper notes side by side (when taking notes on loose sheets) but with iPads or ReMarkables that'll be rather decadent.

h45x1: I have a dedicated couple of pages in a notebook, where I write down the note-taking conventions I use. When transitioning to a new notebook, I would copy those pages, possibly making a few improvements based on past usage. A most unhurried release cycle, if I can say so myself.Regarding the space management, there are many solutions straight out of the programming world, of course: utilize both sides of the notebook, reserve a minimum number of pages per topic, keep an index with free pages, etc. But there are some hardware ones as well, I'm trying Atoma notebooks (https://atoma.be) these days.

sonicrocketman: It's basically just designing a dictionary data type. I recall the Python devs talking about a lot of this stuff from the early days.Everything is related.

cortesoft: I am 43, and for my entire life I have hated writing by hand. I am sure a lot of it has to do with how I hold my pen/pencil but I have never been able to change my grip. My hand hurts and my writing is barely legible. I just hate it.I have tried over the years to get into hand writing and note taking. It never works. I am so grateful for typing, it has saved my life for decades. I can type ridiculously fast, and it doesn't wear me out.I have finally stopped apologizing for this, or thinking something is wrong with me. It just isn't for me

dotancohen: I use a Boox E-Ink tablet with the built-in handwriting notes app. It exports to PDF and I can copy everything to my Debian machine via ADB. I absolutely love it. E-Ink is close enough to paper for me, and the EMR (Wacom) stylus is close enough to a pen for me.

Bridged7756: Paper is just too inconvenient to use for long term storage and revisiting imo. It's better suited as a transitive storage medium, either for short lived stuff like tasks, checklists, or acting as a writing inbox that you later capture into a digital medium.Even with the capture downside, I don't think that I can do away with paper and pen. There's something invigorating about using paper that no keyboard or screen could replicate. More in touch with your brain and with your own words, that your feelings flow better into the ink. It is something that makes me enjoy writing.I've considered e-ink devices in the past but I don't see much value from them. They're a fancier way to draft things at best, in my case, and a worse PKMS/Todo list if anything compared to dedicated tools. I'm paying for an extra device that gives me a bunch of things I won't use, anyways.

sonicrocketman: I'll def be looking around. I have some bottled ink already, but this is a huge concern. Hopefully the fine tip has decent portion control. That helps a lot.

JLO64: I’ve used an ECO and while it’s not my favorite pen, I have nothing bad to say about the nib (I believe mine was a fine as well). The way FP’s write can vary dramatically between different inks though. I’d recommend first trying out the ink you have and seeing what about it you don’t like before researching other inks.Just asking out of precaution, but are you sure this bottled ink of yours can be used with fountain pens? Even if it is, it’s best to be careful with a fine nib (I’ve learned the hard way).

squidbeak: > This is all good advice but one thing it doesn't touch on is: which pen and notebook?In what way could it possibly be relevant? Do you actually believe that the author could suggest a universally suitable pen and paper type? What if he'd had his best results with toilet paper, a sugar thermometer and a soot/diarrhea/lemon juice blend for the ink? Would his advice be any more complete?The moment you lose sight of the habit and instead pay homage to paper and pens, its a fetish instead of a practical discipline.

rasengan0: Loose leaf, works great [1][1] Lion Kimbro. How to Make a Complete Map of Every Thought You Think. 2003 https://users.speakeasy.net/~lion/nb/book.pdf

supersrdjan: Read it a while ago, one lasting impact it had on me is I became a devotee of the bic tri-color pen :)

sonicrocketman: Good to know. TBH I haven't checked. I have some cartridges too (for a different, cheaper fountain pen) but if none of those work, I'll scout for options.What got you into writing letters?

dotancohen: I just commented on another post, so this is a copy-paste of my of other comment:I use a Boox E-Ink tablet with the built-in handwriting notes app. It exports to PDF and I can copy everything to my Debian machine via ADB. I absolutely love it. E-Ink is close enough to paper for me, and the EMR (Wacom) stylus is close enough to a pen for me.The device was worth every penny, even before considering the other uses for it.

Zambyte: I am currently typing from a Daylight Computer that I've been using as my primary mobile device (over a laptop or smartphone) for a bit over a year now. I've used it so much the edges have started to peel off a bit where I hold it. Easily worth the money for me. Days of battery life, buttery smooth animations, reflective e-paper display, full android with an unlockable bootloader, it's great.

keithnz: I haven't used pen and paper for note taking for years and years now. I used to keep a lot of notes in markdown organized into folders (used obsidian for a bit but was just easier to do in Vim). These days I don't take that many notes, usually only to capture key points/decisions in discussions but usually are pretty short lived. I find things get captured in other forms such that notes aren't really needed that much anymore.

JLO64: I’m in a long distance relationship at the moment, so one of the things I try to bridge the distance is sending letters! That’s how I got started, but now I’ll send letters to any of my friends (or anyone really) that sends me a mailing address.One thing I strongly advise when it comes to writing letters with FP ink is to use waterproof/permanent inks. I had to learn that hard way that typical ink doesn’t handle rain well… Diamine just came out with a new lineup of permanent inks which I quite like, but the Platinum stuff (my favorite being Carbon Black) is quite good as well.

sonicrocketman: That's lovely! I do the same now with a few friends. Postcards, letters, etc.. It's a blast. Just got some Strathmore letter paper too. So much nicer than what I was using.

WhyCause: The slowness is a feature, not a bug. It gives your brain time to chew on it a little bit, digesting the information and storing it away instead of just copy-pasting.Speed-hacks like shorthand and stenographers' machines are for copying exactly what was said, not consuming and understanding it. I would be very surprised if there were not very old studies moldering in a paper journal somewhere investigating the information retention of secretaries / stenographers compared to "naive" note-takers.

yardshop: My favorite writing implement these days is a black Milwaukee Inkzall ultra fine pen, bought in 4 packs at Home Depot.I have three primary things I write on, mostly todos for home yard or office, groceries and hardware or tools to buy, and bands and songs to listen to, and the occasional song lyric.The first is a mini clipboard made from a 3" x 4" piece of cedar shingle and a mini binder clip holding a 4x6 craft paper card folded in half, giving me four sides to write on. On the back side I keep a one-year calendar printed on standard letter paper and folded down to fit where I keep track of my band gigs.The next one is a standard wire-bound 4x6 note book, mostly for work todos using sort of a bullet-journaling type of progress system.The third at this point is a regular letter sized clipboard holding scrap one-side-blank printer paper, mostly for meetings.Then I frequently take pictures of any of these pages so I have a dated copy on my phone.They also all get added to with typical 3x3 sticky notes in mostly neon colors.Finally I also do lots of writing in Obsidian, notes in source files with Sublime Text, and sometimes even the StickyNotes Windows app.My philosophy about this over the last few years is that its better to write something down anywhere on whatever system, even on multiple systems, rather than to try to adhere to one format all the time.

helterskelter: You could look at an alphabetic shorthand such as Orthic:https://orthic.shorthand.fun/The learning curve is very gentle, you could learn it in a day. Honestly the hardest part is getting used to reading it fluently.You can also look into various systems of abbreviations developed for telegraph (Evans basic English code), or you could look into using Yublin, which is basically taking all 2-letter combinations and assigning the most common 676 English words to them. Personally I like the idea of Yublin, with the addition of suffixes to modify common words so the word "add" might be "ad" in Yublin, but to make it "addition" you might turn it into "adn" and to further modify it to "additionally" you could write "adnly". This way you get more words out of your limited number of bigrams instead of polluting it with a word plus all it's commonly used variations.Food for thought.