Discussion
Philosoph Jürgen Habermas gestorben
PaulHoule: I love hishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimation_Crisis_(book)but feel this ponderous two-volume sethttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_Communicative_Ac...is thoroughly refuted by our last two decades of experience with electronic communications.
Tomte: SEP: https://plato.stanford.edu/archives/win2024/entries/habermas...My favorite quote of Habermas ist about Luhmann’s[1] theory: "It‘s all wrong, but it‘s got quality".[1] the Zettelkasten person
FabHK: I wondered to which extent Habermas with the Frankfurter Schule and Critical Theory could be held partially responsible for postmodernism's march through the institutions, identity politics, and indirectly for Trump's two election victories. But it looks like he was explicitly critical of postmodernism and other counter-enlightenment movements.RIP.
the-grump: Rick Roderick on Habermas.The series "Self Under Siege" is one of my favorite things on YouTube. Highly recommend watching all 8 in order.https://youtu.be/aXkmmfaZhEg
nkurz: "Jürgen Habermas is dead. The philosopher and sociologist died on Saturday in Starnberg at the age of 96."https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goog/kultur/philosoph-juerg...
minebreaker: I have to say I'm quite disappointed by his attitude against Palestine. RIP, but not with the victims.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/22/israel-hamas-w...
smooc: I like Luhmann’s theory better. What i like about it is that Luhmann argues that the smallest denominator of a social system is a realation between two. Habermas says it can be brought down to an individual. Which in my mind defeats the “social” part.
nwellnhof: The majority of Germans is completely biased towards Zionism because of their history, so it's more of a cultural than a personal thing.
submeta: No we are not. 80% of us are against what Israel does in Palestine. But the Goverment and media will tell you otherwise. It's got nothing to do with our history. Konrad Adenauer--first chancellor--once said:"The power of the Jews even today, especially in America, should not be underestimated. And therefore I have very deliberately and very consciously — and that was always my opinion — put all my strength, the best I could, to bring about a reconciliation between the Jewish people and the German people."It was never about guilt, still is not. Germany has learned nothing from its past.
submeta: Totally disappointing. But coming from Germany, no surprise. German intellectualls and media totally ignore the suffering in Palesine. And fully suppress any solidarity with Palestine. By defunding, by cancelling, by smear campaigns (look up how they--overnight--deligitimised Greta Thunberg), by basically not reporting about what's going on there. And if you are state employed, you can basically bet on it losing your job once you show soliarity with Palestine.
inglor_cz: Europe also has a non-trivial problem with both Islamic terrorism and cultural clash between indigenous Europeans and newly settled Muslims.That reduces empathy towards other Muslims quite significantly.
submeta: Why did muslims have to leave their countries? The "cultural clash" didn't appear out of thin air. Muslims are in Europe in large numbers because of wars that Europe and the West either started, fueled, or failed to prevent.To name a few conflicts incited by the West: The Nakba in 1948 displaced 750,000 Palestinians and created a refugee population that still hasn't been resolved.The Soviet-Afghan War displaced 6M+ people.The US invaded Iraq in 2003, directly creating the vacuum that spawned ISIS.NATO bombed Libya into a failed state.The US and Israel spent years destabilizing Syria long before the civil war made it the worst refugee crisis since WWII.Europe's closest allies armed all sides of Yemen's proxy war.=> Every single wave of Muslim refugees into Europe traces back to a conflict the West had its hands in. Blaming Muslims for being here while ignoring why they had to leave is not a serious position.And now Iran, a country with 90+m population. And noone stops US/israel. What do you think will cause the next flow of refugees?
inglor_cz: Most Muslims in Europe are descendants of Gastarbeiters from the 1960s and 1970s.
gr__or: I find this to be vile political posting, moving responsibility for Trump's rightwing fascism to a social theorists is just misguided, banal and does not belong here. Don't you have X for that?
lmf4lol: Wait until you discover that Alex Karp is a (Neo-)Marxist…Philosophical insights and methods can be used for politics of any color.I do agree that its wrong to say that Habermas would be responsible(!) for any of that though. As if thinking up stuff would make you responsible for the misuse of those ideas down the road.
throw310822: This is well known, but isn't this exactly what you ask of a great thinker, to be able to transcend the biases of the culture and provide clarity and guidance? (Though of course at that age is hard to expect much from anyone).
LocutusOfBorges: It fits in with the contemporary mainstream on this site, unfortunately. Whenever politics comes up on HN, it invariably brings all the cranks out to play.
