Discussion
kotaKat: (dupe) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47510800
SunshineTheCat: Kinda a wild idea I had never really considered, but absolutely a possibility: using a TV as a loss leader to sell ads.Not sure if that's they're intent here, but I could easily see that becoming a thing (if it isn't already). And what better way to collect useful ad data on people than forcing them to create an account and then tracking their usage of the device.
close04: Most TVs are not actual loss leaders but for a long time now their price is subsidized by the sale of any and all data collected from you, and integrated ads.
john_strinlai: it is definitely a thing. a 65" 4K OLED tv costs less than 32GB of ram!practically every other electronic has gone up in price like crazy, tvs have gone down.
JoeBOFH: At my last job we bought a lot of Vizio tvs. We used them for conference rooms, hallway displays, etc. They were reasonably priced and had a good feature set needed.They have been on a decline for years and this is a nail in the coffin.
hypercube33: There are business models that are dumb displays that you bring your own device to do conference stuff on whatever platform you wish. I'm not current with the pricing but they typically have good warranties.
limagnolia: So, just like Google, Amazon, and Roku TV's? (And probably LG and Samsung too?)
pavel_lishin: Google and Amazon make smart TVs?
toast0: No, but neither do Roku. All three participate to embed their software (and hardware, probably) on smart TVs that other people make.
Robdel12: Is there any kind of “hook up” on wholesale large dumb displays?I know I’m preaching to the choir, but I just want a giant dumb display from my Apple TV. I vaguely remember someone posting a link to tvs restaurants use but I don’t remember exactly what or if it was what I’m looking for.(Sorry, being lazy here)
slackfan: NEC/Sharp commercial displays are great. Even come with a daughter board you can throw a Raspberry Pi onto to run your own OS.
interloxia: TV/streaming devices. Amazon's launched in 2014 and GoogleTV in 2010 according to wikipedia.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_TV_(2010%E2%80%932014)
1bpp: [delayed]
Havoc: Wishful thinking but I wish the EU would legislate this BS away.
RiverCrochet: A lot of people do their grocery shopping at Walmart (even if you don't). This positions Walmart as being able to offer discounts for food and other daily necessities to people right on their TV. People are going to like this-especially the cohort that would buy a cheap TV at Walmart. They're going to really like saving a few dollars on groceries or gas. Not to mention Walmart can now offer perks through the TV to its millions of employees. They're going to like it too.Walmart is one of the most litigated companies ever, and probably has 10+ active lawsuits against it at any given time. So if they're getting into this, they're fairly sure it will work legally now and in the future.The battle against personal-data-collection by default on TVs is probably lost at this point. It's over. Non-smart TVs will probably become specialized, super-expensive corporate-class expenses out of reach of most people before too long.Projectors are capable of creating a big image on a wall like a TV, and while it's not as bright, it comes with much less privacy invasion, and is also portable. That's where I'm likely spending my future TV dollars until those gets caught up in this as well.
waltwalther: Great point! My knee-jerk reaction was that this is an intrusion and the enduser would be held hostage unless he/she gives up personal information to Walmart...and maybe that is the case for some, but some will surely benefit from the personal advertising and discounts. I do believe there should be a large, bright, unavoidable notice on the outside of the TV packaging stating that a Walmart account is required to use the TV.
beardyw: I still use a Chromecast 2 on my non connected TV. Works well.
close04: Most are also larger, heavier, with higher power consumption, and sometimes uncomfortably high minimum brightness. They rarely use the same panels as retail models because they have to support different operating conditions like extreme temperatures and 24/7 operation.
embedding-shape: And the worst part, usually way more expensive too, seen some panels where the cost was double because the target market is "ad agencies" or whatever.
close04: > the cost was double because the target market is "ad agencies" or whatever.A TV capable of operating in those conditions has to be more expensive or else it'll need replacing twice as often and cost even more long term. Remember when Tesla used bog standard laptop screens in their dash because they were cheaper than automotive grade, leading to high failure rate?
ge96: Reminds me of the insta go 360 3s cam I bought recently, have to install a mobile app on your phone to activate it. At least you can uninstall the app after.The hardware is amazing, the software could improve in terms of how it deals with motion blur and surfaces like gravel.
shermantanktop: 2040: a $30k neural interface becomes available.2042: a $20 budget neural version hits the market but requires the user to watch a 15s ad every 5 minutes.
jMyles: We would never force a user to watch a 15-second ad every 5 minutes.We simply augment their content with a 15-second fully-immersive aesthetic and psychological experience which highlights the quality of our sponsor's product.
plagiarist: If the neural interface can filter other ads, that frequency would be a reduction for many people.
-warren: This is why I have protonmail aliases, a burner second phone, and an x1 virtual cc. While I can't stop the enshittification, I can fight back by remaining pseudo anonymous and compartmentalize each service.
darknavi: Isn't that actually great? Just never create and sign into a Walmart account and now your TV isn't infected.
sjsdaiuasgdia: This presumes that, now or later, there won't be an on-screen message that can't be dismissed saying "Sign in to a Walmart account to enable all TV features."There's plenty of ways they can interfere with attempts to use the TV in "dumb" mode. Heck it could refuse to show any video at all til you've signed in.
freedomben: Yep. I bought a Samsung TV that I never even put online. It pops up with a half-screen display that lasts for 2 minutes every time I turn it on . Never again.
jvolkman: What is the half-screen display? On my Samsung S90D (new within the last year or so), I can set it to skip the "home" screen and go directly to the last input on power on. It works well.
sjsdaiuasgdia: A manufacturer can target multiple markets and make different choices for different markets.The Samsung S90D (a 65" 4K model) you bought appears to sell for about $1000. Looking at Best Buy's site, you can also buy a Samsung 65" 4K TV for as little as $180 (model DU6900).Yes, there's other differences. LED vs OLED etc. But at a glance they seem equivalent to a consumer...and one costs 5x more. The $1000 TV is targeting a market that expects more from their purchase and would potentially grate at a persistent sign-in notification. The <$200 TV is targeting a market that wants a big TV and hasn't thought much past that.There's definitely a chance that on some models Samsung would be more aggressive about enabling smart features, because those models are expected to be subsidized by ads.
jerlam: There are free TVs now that are completely subsidized by ads: https://www.telly.com/But don't think people who can afford the more expensive TV are also more tech-savvy. Some just want a nicer TV. Also, they are a much more lucrative target market than people who cannot afford the nicer TV.
everdrive: Is this a benefit in disguise? You refuse to create walmart account, and therefore your smart TV is rendered dumb and you can just use it like normal?
SoftTalker: Just use an AppleTV, Roku, etc. and connect it to the HDMI port.TV is just a screen. That is how I've used mine for the last 5+ years.
plagiarist: It won't be "just a screen" for much longer if people continue paying for TVs that do this bullshit.
SoftTalker: IDK. People are always going to want to connect game consoles, computers, etc to big screens without a lot of fuss.
boesboes: Can you even buy 'just a screen'? We have huge (100"+) screens in the office, they cost A LOT. full of spam, apps, ads, popups. It doesnt even swithc to hdmi or what ever you input automatically, you need to select the screen mode orso.The local electronics chain has 50-100 different TV's. All are 'smart'.I would be ok with classifying this as a crime against humanity. /sBut honestly, I've just given up. I don't watch tv or movies or stream anymore, because it's all the same bullshit
PunchyHamster: at this point the TVs should be sold in ad and non-ad supported versions
Ylpertnodi: Ad version $£€599.00 No ads $£€7.99 Profit.
havaloc: You sort of have to admire what a clever purchase Vizio was for Walmart.
555513: Roku makes TV, as well as Amazon.All 3 make streaming devices (Stick, set-top box, etc).
prepend: I find roku really ad heavy and it sent tons of traffic back to roku.com. Same for firetv.
Marsymars: I've got a Roku on a TV in a spare room because it's the cheapest way to add airplay to a tv - I have it plugged in to a "smart" power bar that only provides power to the roku when the TV is turned on, so at least for the 99% of the time that the TV isn't turned on the roku isn't spamming my network.
giancarlostoro: I never connect my smart TVs to the network, I just plug in my Apple TV and move on. It's frustrating because it takes longer to turn these devices on than it should because of all the additional overhead I don't want or need. I wish someone would make a painless gadget to flash the software with dumber software that loads instantly.
joering2: Same here! none of my home Tvs, most LG and Samsung, have ever seen w Wifi password. Always putting firestick on it and call it a day. At least firestick I can unplug throw away, God only knows what updates TV does that I obviously cannot revert.
autoexec: > Always putting firestick on it and call it a day.Aren't you just letting amazon collect and monetize your viewing habits while allowing them to push ads at you? Avoiding ads and data collection are the reasons I'd want to leave my TV offline in the first place.
tverbeure: Option A: use Amazon Prime Video to watch shows. Share your viewing habits with Walmart/Vizio and Amazon.Option B: use Amazon Prime Video to watch shows. Share your viewing habits with Amazon.
autoexec: Using a firestick means amazon collects data on what you watch regardless of the platform you view it on. Also ads.
c420: Saw this elsewhere:"It will not let you do anything until you download the app on your phone, make an account, and log in on the TV. You cant just change it to HDMI 1 and use a Firestick. I set it up with a throw away email, then deleted the app, and took the TV off of the WiFi."
prepend: Havent all electronics dropped in price?Computers are cheaper. Phones are sort of cheaper. Headphones are cheaper.Game systems cost more.
john_strinlai: >Havent all electronics dropped in price?that does not reflect my reality, for the things i have bought (or considered buying), no.but i dont have hard data to back that up, so maybe i am wrong about the general case and the price increases are more local or specific to some other variable.
Marsymars: I've got a Sony TV with Google TV (not connected to internet) that turns on pretty quickly.If it's going from a cold boot e.g. where it was unplugged or if it's doing a full reboot it takes a bit longer and shows a splash screen, but if it's turning on from a regular "off" state it takes about the same amount of time as the rest of my dumb screens and goes directly to the last used input.
