Discussion

My Macbook Keyboard is Broken and it's Insanely Expensive to Fix

hurricanepootis: This isn't an issue with macbook keyboards, a lot of windows laptops have their keyboards riveted to the C cover of a laptop.

mattbillenstein: Framework Laptop + some form of Linux - MacOS keeps getting worse and the hardware exceeding hard and expensive to repair.

KnuthIsGod: My first computer was a Mac Plus.I got to experience Apple's customer hostile practices.Many years ago l decided never to buy an Apple product again.

BoredPositron: What MacBook is it? If you don't have the insane butterfly switches single keys are pretty repairable now.

k310: Go figure. MacBook Neo Is the Most Repairable MacBook in 14 Years [0]Much as a laptop would suit me, I opted for a mini and a large display.Come keyboard time, I was ready to spend $$$$$ for an Apple keyboard, but the only backlit ones come on laptops. I'm using a Logitech now, with the option of charging it all the time, else the lights dim themselves to conserve battery.Yes, I was 19 once. And three times after that. But there we go again, stuff designed for 19 year-olds.How about this? (image at imgbb.com)https://i.ibb.co/66RZd3b/mbp16-m3-max-01.jpg (JK)

jwlake: ifixit sells just the keyboards, why doesn't that work?https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-pro-14-a2442-a2779-a...

julienreszka: >Here’s hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to actually make repairable machines in the future.if you thing government regulation will help you you are lying to yourself that's not how the world works

ebbi: Cautiously optimistic, given the repairability of the MacBook Neo keyboard, that this design will make it to the rest of their laptops when the refreshed designs are released (next year?).

mememememememo: > mapped capslock + J K L Iyou need to visit the confessional for that

brailsafe: [delayed]

cyanydeez: If they would have sprung for the AMD395+ in the latop @ 128GB, you'd have a fair comparison for AI compute.

VladVladikoff: Looks like it’s possible to replace just the keyboard https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SeSQ0DpG1HA&t=907s&pp=2AGLB5AC...

SkiFire13: I don't see a replacement guide link on that page, but curiously there's this note:> The aluminum upper case and installation screws are not included.I would assume you likely need those too, as the article also mentions.

justinator: AppleCare is honestly a great deal, especially for laptops. M1 Macbook Pros from 2020 are humming along just fine for regular people who see no reason to upgrade.The future is now, old man.

tim-tday: Bought AppleCare for my AirPods. Never again.

phil21: AppleCare is leaps and bounds better than any other insurance you can buy for mobile or laptops.For accessories I don’t see the point, those are effectively disposable.Ironically a large part of migrating to an iPhone from android was final frustrations with even Google purchased devices under warranty coupled with hardware quality requiring repairs. My wife’s experience with AppleCare won me over.If nothing else it’s first party. I will never purchase device insurance offered via a third party ever again. Either its first party so I’m dealing with the place I bought it or nothing at all.

bonyt: [delayed]

MostlyStable: >Here’s hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to actually make repairable machines in the future.No, this is a bad solution. If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework, but there are other options that aren't that far down the spectrum either.One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of flex, etc. These quality features are, in part, achieved by the same choices that make it hard to repair. Ease of repair and "build quality", are to some degree (although not entirely) tradeoffs against each other.I say this as a framework owner who would never buy something as irreparable as a macbook. Regulation is not the answer here.

carlosjobim: Swedes many times have a defeatist attitude towards companies and authorities, and expect that they will never get any help unless they have a right to it (from warranties or such).The author doesn't mention ever contacting Apple to get his keyboard fixed. Maybe he could have gotten pleasantly surprised?"Here’s hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to actually make repairable machines in the future."However, this quote is not a surprise at all, and goes perfectly in line with Swedish philosophy. And the philosophy of this message board as well.

bigyabai: If you think Apple is incapable of designing repairable keyboards, then I'd like to know how Lenovo figured it out: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T480+Keyboard+R...

bombcar: AppleCare is only worth it for expensive things with big repair costs; the "repair fee" for AirPods is such a high percentage of the replacement price that it just is not worth it.

linsomniac: Does anyone know if this is covered under the Apple Care plans? My 16" M1 MBP keyboard has been no problem, I'm just curious. Not saying that negates the issue.Unfortunately, AFAICT, these repairability issues are largely due to the move to thinner and lighter laptops. Replacing my MILs Microsoft Surface tablet was a pain in the butt. Had to cut the case open and tape it back together. But that thing was insanely small and light. My MIL liked it because she has a lot of trouble carrying anything very heavy.

chad_strategic: Apple has provided money to the White House East Wing Remodeling Project.I feel go not contributing to that project.

throwaway27448: Name me an american tech company that isn't complicit in the fascist project. I bet you they don't produce laptops

bigyabai: System76

burgerone: "Made in america" is dead.

nerdsniper: Wouldn’t the screws in your existing generally be reusable for this replacement?

relium: My MacBook Pro M1 keyboard broke too and Apple wanted $900 to replace it. I bought a $30 replacement on Amazon and started replacing it myself. Unfortunately the repair was a bit too complicated for me, but luckily one of my co-workers had more patience and replaced it for some beer.This video is a good overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGmMpEEP5ls

fsflover: Purism

wvenable: > No, this is a bad solution.You didn't say why this is a bad solution. The government mandates that cars get safer every year and fatalities are down 78% from the 1960s. Whenever government regulates things to benefit people, people tend to benefit.> One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of flex, etc.It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties as well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy to repair.

internet2000: > It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties as well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy to repair.It's slightly worse, slightly more flex, thicker and heavier vs an Air in spite of having a smaller battery and more empty space. It's all trade offs.If you want repairable, please buy a Framework or Lenovo. Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer.

wvenable: > Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer.Again, why not? It's not mandating design, just minimal standards for repairability that should be obvious. If Framework and Lenovo can do it and Apple can do it on a $600 laptop, why can't everyone do it?

stkhlm: The author isn't Swedish. I've known him for 18 years. Not sure where this comes from.

zapnuk: Framework Laptop is more expensive than a Macbook Air with all around worse hardware. For a framework 13 I'd have to pay 1900€ with a 16GB setup. For 1450 I get a MBA with 24GB ram. Similar with a dell or lenovo who get smoked in performance comparisons.It might still be worth it for those who hugely value open source and repairability but as for value I think its save to say that Apple is currently in a league of their own. Even if the altest os update is a flop.Also, the Macbook has improved repairability. While its still not great its better than a few years ago.

ChuckMcM: > Framework Laptop is more expensive than a Macbook Air with all around worse hardware.Is it though? I'd agree the hardware is less capable but if your Macbook anything is really just one 'top case' repair away from being more expensive. RAM failure is 'motherboard replace', the display? it is similarly expensive to replace.So I would agree that it is more expensive to purchase a Framework laptop than a Macbook laptop, but also feel it is more expensive to own a Macbook laptop than a Framework laptop. Also I just replaced the screen on my FW13 not because it was broken but because they have one with 4x the pixels on it now. That's not something I could have done with the Macbook.

wat10000: What is the probability of those things failing during the time you have the MacBook? I've had Apple portables since they were called PowerBooks and the only problem I've had that wasn't caused by violence was a battery swelling, and that cost me something like $120 to replace, not a big deal. If you add 5% to the price, that's probably about your expected cost for repairs or premature replacements if you don't have a habit of damaging your equipment.If'd rather not take a low risk of a big repair/replacement bill and you don't mind helping Big Fruit make a bit more of a profit, you can pay them $50-150/year (depending on model) to take that risk. Multiply that by the number of years you expect to own the device to come up with a "real" cost including repairs/replacements.

mananaysiempre: Keyboards on MacBook Pros have been riveted since at least 2014. That doesn’t necessarily disprove your argument, but it does move the “thin and light” bar farther back than one would expect from the phrasing.

linsomniac: Apple has long made trade offs in pursuit of "thin and light". Apple announced the 2014 MBP as "People love their MacBook Pro because of the thin and light, aluminum unibody design". https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2014/07/29Apple-Updates-MacBo...

mrtksn: What if the repairable ones crunch the numbers and find out that Apple got the right idea from business standpoint and the only reason they can't do the same is that their laptops or their brand is not as good? It will mean that if they actually end up making a product that people want that product will not be easy to repair as well.

free_bip: Oh no, my laptop is 2mm thicker than a different laptop. Won't someone think of the 2mm?

carlosjobim: His name is Swedish or it could be Norwegian.Anyway, did he contact Apple to see if they could help him out? Because sometimes Apple fixes these things for free.I've had very good and very bad experiences with Apple support for hardware failures. It's worth trying to contact them, instead of calling for more government regulation.

bloppe: Car safety is a bad counterexample because the risk is otherwise often externalized i.e. your car can easily hurt a total stranger whereas the consequences of your choice in laptop are strictly personal. And as GP stated, regulating this sort of thing would definitely force a particular trade-off on everyone. A lot of people would be pissed to have MacBooks with worse "build quality" even if they were more reparable. Having a choice is better.

0xbadcafebee: [delayed]

lucasfin000: The "just buy another one" argument only works if the alternatives are even comparable. For a lot of people, macOS is a hard requirement and not a preference, so telling them just to buy a framework that runs Linux ignores that entirely. Right to repair regulation doesn't force Apple to make a worse product it just requires that the parts and repair information are available.

radley: > If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned FrameworkBut that means Windows or Linux, not macOS. There's serious trade-offs that you're dismissing because you personally don't need macOS, but that's not the case for everyone.#hn-bingo

ThePowerOfFuet: macOS has slid a long way down the quality ladder over the past ten years.

sleepybrett: the keyboard in the current macbook pro is RIVETED.

sleepybrett: the macbook neo has gone back to a replaceable keyboard. The next line of macbookpros are appenrly getting a new case design. There is hope.

kakacik: What a wildly incorrect comment. You realize its perfectly feasible and fully within apple engineers powers to design trivially repairable notebook (or any other device) while not losing any of those qualities you mention (which are easy to find in expensive competition too)? Don't make those extremely well paid engineers incompetent just because it suits your argument.But vendor lockin mandated by management is way more powerful than powers of engineers, apple ain't immune to this since its accountants and lawyers running the company.I'll give it a benefit of a doubt and won't claim its a PR comment and just a uncritical fanboy one, but its pretty close.

jdpedrie: > The government mandates that cars get safer every year and fatalities are down 78% from the 1960s. Whenever government regulates things to benefit people, people tend to benefit.On some metrics. On affordability, new cars are considerably more expensive. Whether that's a worthwhile tradeoff is beside the point. The GP's point is that there's no free lunch, and your example doesn't address that.

hermitcrab: The trackpad on my 2.5 year old Macbook Air stopped working. Apple wanted over £400 to fix it. Thankfully I found a local guy who did it for a fraction of that. Screw Apple.

coldsunrays: > order a replacement keyboard, take the laptop apart, replace the keyboard and good to goThat’s all it took with my Framework laptop, and I’m very grateful for it. I was in a good place financially when I got it, but now I’m not. I feel a strong sense of relief that if an accident occurs and I need a repair, it won’t set me back too much.

throw939484999: Goverment regulates everything including cow farts!Apple can keep their unrepairable macbook. Butc should not be marketed as "green product". It should pay extra as ICE cars, be excluded from educational markets, public institutions etc...

jclardy: Interestingly, Apple's newest and cheapest laptop (the Neo) is super repairable. And even the keyboard is finally replaceable without having to replace the entire top case. Hopefully the trend is continued in the next redesigns of the Air and Pro which are due soon.