Discussion
hasa: I get impression that this is automation tool for sales people. Does it do robotic phone calls to try to book meetings with customers?
baileywickham: Co founder Bailey here, happy to answer questions.
orsorna: Does the claw in the VM have proven capability (verified by your team) to track changes it makes to itself and persist across reboots? What about rollback capability?
baileywickham: We allow you to backup to a private Github repo you own so if you want to version control your setup that way you can. Otherwise most changes are tracked in the chat history and the LLM has some ability to repair itself or validate changes before they are made.
nullcathedral: Do you run a dedicated "AI SRE" instance for each customer or how do you ensure there is no potential for cross-contamination or data leakage across customers?Basically how do you make sure your "AI SRE" does not deviate from it's task and cause mayhem in the VM, or worse. Exfiltrates secrets, or other nasty things? :)
ndnichols: This sounds awesome and exactly like the easy and safe on-ramp to OpenClaw that I've been looking for! I want to believe.Two questions as a potential user who knows the gist of OpenClaw but has been afraid to try it: 1. I don't understand how the two consumption credits play into the total cost of ownership. E.g. how long will $20 of Orthogonal credits last me? I have no idea what it will actually cost to use Klaus/OpenClaw for a month. 2. Batteries included sounds great, but what are those batteries? I've never heard of Apollo or Hunter.io so I don't know the value of them being included.In general, a lot of your copy sounds like it's written for people already deep into OpenClaw. Since you're not targeting those folks, I would steer more towards e.g. articulating use cases that work ootb and a TCO estimate for less technical folks. Good luck, and I'm eager to try it!
TheDong: The cost of ownership for an OpenClaw, and how many credits you'll use, is really hard to estimate since it depends so wildly on what you do.I can give you an openclaw instruction that will burn over $20k worth of credits in a matter of hours.You could also not talk to your claw at all for the entire month, setup no crons / reoccurring activities / webhooks / etc, and get a bill of under $1 for token usage.My usage of OpenClaw ends up costing on the order of $200/mo in tokens with the claude code max plan (which you're technically not allowed to use with OpenClaw anymore), or over $2000 if I were using API credits I think (which Klause is I believe, based on their FAQ mentioning OpenRouter).So yeah, what I consider fairly light and normal usage of OpenClaw can quite easily hit $2000/mo, but it's also very possible to hit only $5/mo.Most of my tokens are eaten up by having it write small pieces of code, and doing a good amount of web browser orchestration. I've had 2 sentence prompts that result in it spinning up subagents to browse and summarize thousands of webpages, which really eats a lot of tokens.
robthompson2018: We certainly have customers who work in sales, but that's not the only use case.OpenClaw is capable of using ElevenLabs or other providers to make phone calls, but I personally haven't done this and as far as I know none of our customers have either. Is AI good enough at cold calling yet for this to work? I personally would never entertain such a call.
Myzel394: Sounds like a perfect data leak any% speedrun to me... :P
rid: What does the VM consist of? Is the image available?
grim_io: Absolute madman :)Giving an agent access to AWS is effectively giving it your credit card.At the max, I would give it ssh access to a Hetzner VM with its own user, capable of running rootles podman containers.
haolez: Not at all. AWS IAM policy is a complex maze, but incredibly powerful. It solves this exact problem very well.
giancarlostoro: Just have to know... What the heck are you building?
sealthedeal: Is this not just Claude Code? Genuinely hoping someone could spell it out for me
0x008: Why not use something like Temporal to recover state?
baileywickham: Claude Code is awesome, I use it all day, every day. OpenClaw is similar but not the same. I think if all you do is write code, CC is probably best for you.OpenClaw is interesting because it does a lot of things ok, but it was the first to do so. It will chat with you in Telegram/messages which is small but surprisingly interesting. It handles scheduled tasks. The open source community is huge, clawhub is very useful for out of the box skills. It's self building and self modifying.
jimbob45: Would having a locally-hosted model offset any of these costs?
xienze: > safe on-ramp to OpenClawIMO I don't think the "OpenClaw has root access to your machine" angle is the thing you should worry that much about. You can put your OpenClaw on a VM, behind a firewall and three VPNs but if it's got your Google, AWS, GitHub, etc. credentials you've still got a lot to worry about. And honestly, I think malicious actors are much more interested in those credentials than wiping out your machine.I'm honestly kind of surprised everyone neglects to think about that aspect and is instead more concerned with "what if it can delete my files."
_joel: "The week after our launch we spent 20+ hours fixing broken machines by hand."oh fuck yea, sounds great.Hard pass on this (and OpenClaw) thanks.
ilovesamaltman: this is reallly fucking interestingmind if I write an article about this on ijustvibecodedthis.com ?
