Discussion
Keep Android Open
ssiddharth: Somewhere along the way, installing became side-loading and the rot started taking hold.</boomer-rant>
AussieWog93: I've been following "hackery" spaces like the console homebrew and Android custom ROM scenes for almost 2 decades now.There has long been a culture of deliberately making the installation of certain types of free and libre software needlessly complex and using deviancy-coded language simply because it makes the in-group feel cool and elite.This whole idea of "sideloading" and related terminology being Google FUD only came about in the past couple of years. For the decade before it was people on xda-developers deliberately throwing words like that around because they wanted to prove they were true 1337 h4xx0rz.</millenial-rant>
bparsons: It feels like there is a wide open opportunity for some new OS's to enter the mainstream marketplace. I see nothing but dissatisfaction with the incumbents.
freedomben: I want what you say to be true, but realistically it's not because of the "security" features available to app developers, and the fact that so many companies (even government!) have moved to mandatory apps. I don't know how we ever get past that with a new OS.
techteach00: I'm using a 5 year old OnePlus Nord that needs to be replaced and all of a sudden I see I have no options but Samsung, Motorola and Google.Not sure what I'll do. Does Asus still make a phone?
srslyTrying2hlp: We need a financial way to reward the resistance. Big corps do not care, as we saw them cave to Apple.Anyway, I did my part, basically I only use FDroid. I filled this out: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfN3UQeNspQsZCO2ITk...>Combat astroturfing: when you encounter suspect posts on community forums and social media in support of the policy (“Well, actually…”), challenge them and do not be shy.Someone contact Dang, because this is now allowed. I have been suspicious HN has actively supported astroturfers over the years for some sort of financial or mutually beneficial gain.Anyway I basically changed to web apps. They are much easier to deal with and develop.
freedomben: F-Droid really does have some great stuff, and you can know that the default posture is user respect rather than the opposite situation of the Play Store. I've started almost exclusively using F-Droid, excepting only for a few core apps that aren't available there (much to my disappointment).If you haven't searched/browsed F-Droid in the last few years, do it. You'll likely be pleasantly surprised.
srslyTrying2hlp: F-Droid is amazing. I basically wont install anything from the playstore unless its my bank or something.Video games on F-Droid are how Android games should be. They have the spirt: No ads, no micro transactions, etc..Kids educational games are the same. I have been using those games only for years and I've had 0 issues. Playstore games, you get an update and now your progress is frozen unless you pay.Guitar tuner? sameFile explorer, image viewer, etc... SameEverything: same
freedomben: Fully agree. Can you recommend some games, and kids educational games? I've tried a few and like them, but would love some recs.The ones I like: Breakout 71, Chess, Word Maker, Word Tracer, Roboyard, FaFa Runner (short but briefly fun), Minesweeper (Privacy Friendly), Simon Tatham's Puzzles, SuperTuxKart, Tux Rider.
freedomben: Hypothetically, if Pixel phones became the go-to phone on Android, would G be less or more likely to keep it open? I have a bad feeling that the former is more accurate. The fragmentation somewhat forces the openness, or at least a baseline of openness. If pixels went to 98% market share, a rug pull seems easy and desirable for the management classes.I'll admit that my cynicism is in no small part to having seen Android team members at G carrying around iPhones. It kills me to think that the bad parts of Apple are so interwoven into Android through cultural assimilation.
nslsm: > It kills me to think that the bad parts of Apple are so interwoven into Android through cultural assimilation.It’s more like Android is worse so they don’t want to use it. Dogfooding is good, of course, but if they don’t force them to do it, they will naturally choose the best phone. Which is not an Android.
bjornroberg: The detail that keeps getting lost in these threads: the "advanced flow" for power users is delivered through Google Play Services, not the Android OS. That's the whole game.It means the safeguard is not part of AOSP. It ships as a closed component that Google can narrow, gate, or remove in any Play Services update, with no Android version bump, no OEM coordination, no user consent beyond the usual auto-update. "Open platform with an escape hatch" is load-bearing in the PR; "closed escape hatch bolted onto an open kernel" is what's actually shipping.The second tell is timing. It's five months from enforcement and the flow has not appeared in any beta, dev preview, or canary build. We're being asked to treat a blog post and UI mockups as a functional guarantee. No other platform change of this scope lands without a shipping preview this late, and Google knows it.The third piece most devs skim past: registration requires uploading evidence of your private signing key. Whatever you think of the verification program in principle, that specific requirement changes the threat model of every Android key in existence, including the ones protecting apps people already depend on."Sideloading still works" is only true in the narrow sense that some ceremony remains. The mechanism protecting that ceremony is owned by the party with the strongest incentive to eventually close it.
syoleene: If the "advanced flow" is delivered through play services, what does this mean for degoogled Android phones? Or are those not concerned with the new side loading limitations?Put simply, If I were to install plain AOSP and F-Droid would I be able to continue installing apps normally?
flotzam: This anti-sideloading stuff only applies to certified devices. Anything without a privileged integration of Google Play is not a certified device.
dethos: As I mentioned previously, the writing is on the wall. It is a matter of time.We definitely need a true alternative on the market, preferably open, to balance things out and to free everyone from the duopoly. The political pressure that is needed is not to “keep” Android open, but to ensure that governments and institutions don't double down on the existing duopoly. Ensure that interoperability standards are in place, and don't lock people into the existing big tech platforms/solutions.
surajrmal: Yes because enforcement of the signing is also done via Google play services.
