Discussion

HR NEWS

redwood: Once liberated this economy is going to roar

gruez: >Data showing Iranian women outperforming American women in STEM by a factor of nearly three doesn’t support that case, so it doesn’t get reported.I thought the standard explanation for this was that in patriarchal societies women get "hard" degrees because that's their only way out of being oppressed as a housewife, and in more egalitarian societies women pursue what they like?

lurkercodemnky: Your pop culture and political messaging tells women "liberation" is about sexualizing themselves and revolving their lives around attention.Have you ever wondered, maybe you shouldn't be lecturing "patriarchal backward societies"?

echelon: Can't people decide for themselves what matters?Life is a short few trips around the sun, then eternal annihilation.Prosperity tends to create chill attitudes.

7e: This is a pro-Communist, anti-Israel propaganda site which publishes articles such as, “Report: North Korea Is Now Beating America in Healthcare, Education, Housing, and Transportation” etc.For the record, it’s often the case that women to into STEM in countries like Iran and Russia because they are denied opportunity elsewhere.

monkaiju: have a link for that claim?

kulahan: If you think the US has an interest in either Iran OR Iraq being dominant in the region without, at BEST, being completely subservient to the US, you may want to review how you think this will turn out.

BirAdam: s/US/Israel/g

lostmsu: Learning that in Iran jurisprudence is limited for women, I agree on Iran. But will nitpick on Russia. What do you think is denied for women in Russia that is not denied in US/EU?

MathMonkeyMan: That was my thought as well, but all I know is hearsay.It doesn't have to be one or the other, either. Whether women excel in science and medicine is not the sole indicator of their status in society.

elcritch: Not sure its a standard explanation, but i recall reading a couple of research articles about that topic.

tokai: Russia decriminalized domestic violence in 2017.

lurkercodemnky: Is that the excuse for the life of online dating apps and only fans? You're destroying the society which your "conservative" "backward" forefathers built.

JumpCrisscross: > maybe you shouldn't be lecturing "patriarchal backward societies"?It's perfectly fair to criticize modern Iran. Particularly when it comes to mis-allocating its skilled population and history.Look at it from the perspective of fitness: if Iran had let these women study and work freely, and had invested its resources in growing its economy instead of a dud of a nuclear programme, might it–not Israel–be the region's hegemon?> That's why developing countries have many STEM graduatesNumber of scientists and engineers per capita is directly propotional to GDP per capita [1].[1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/GDP-per-capita-vs-number...

lurkercodemnky: > Number of scientists and engineers per capital is directly propotional to GDP per capital [1].I meant the fraction. Do you have a plot of number of college gradutates on the same axes? I am sure it will be a steeper line.

Izikiel43: What he said and what you say do not contradict each other.Iran can be a puppet of the USA and have a great economy as well.

lmz: See also: Japan or South Korea.

onecommentman: But it is one objective indicator in the right direction.

wanderlust123: Except what you are saying doesn’t really make sense and is implicitly sexist. You are assuming women in those countries don’t enjoy studying these subjects.Also, to pursue a hard STEM degree or phd would detract from being a housewife, so no “oppressive” husband would allow that in the first place. Ergo the women pursuing these paths are not oppressed in the first place.

Detrytus: Well, to be honest most countries in the world beat America in healthcare and transportation, and to lesser degree in education and housing. US are a third world country with big army, that’s it.

csomar: This is not limited to Iran. Many Islamic countries have very high female participation in STEM because these degrees grant women greater freedoms. Iran (and most Muslim countries) is not Afghanistan; women do have a certain degree of freedom, and in some countries it's considerable.Another point about STEM: families are more likely to accept, and even encourage, their women to go abroad and study. This is strictly STEM-specific: something like music or cinema wouldn't be accepted and would be social suicide. In my opinion, this is the very reason women push so hard in STEM in these countries.It's still worth noting that the Iranian government isn't against its people or women pursuing higher education. They definitely encourage it (it's free!). They just want their people to align with their ideals and contribute to their goals.

Detrytus: I think it is kind of a paradox which is clearly visible in some progressive Scandinavian countries like Sweden or Denmark.

VerifiedReports: That title is neither pro-Communist nor anti-Israel. What are you on about?

JumpCrisscross: > meant the fractionDecent hypothesis, but not true.In 2020 the fraction of graduates who were STEM in China was 41%, Russia 37%, Germany 36%, Iran 33%, India 30%, and France 26% [1]. If we take the eleven countries in that article's GDP per capital, we find no statistically-significant relationship.[1] https://cset.georgetown.edu/article/the-global-distribution-...

hollerith: An unreliable source of fast answers says that in February 2017, legislation was signed that downgraded first-time domestic violence offenses that do not cause serious bodily harm--defined as injuries requiring hospital treatment or causing a loss of ability to work--from a criminal offense to an administrative violation.

lurkercodemnky: Thanks for correcting me -- the correlation is weaker than I would expect; though I will stand by my original commentary on the broader cultural issues.It would be interesting to contrast how much of them are STEM vs other "real world degrees" that get a job (accounting, hotel management or whatever) vs the "liberal arts" degrees.> The WEF report identified China, India, the United States, Russia, Iran, Indonesia, and Japan as the top seven STEM graduate-producing countries in the world.I think the US (and probably Germany too) is an outlier here because of the number of immigrants who arrive to study STEM degrees.

firen777: > most countries in the worldCan you provide actual statistic to support this claim instead of just saying hip anti-America rhetoric to sound cool?There are a lot of legitimate criticisms regarding the US infrastructure. I'd even agree with a "most WEIRD countries in the world beat America..." take. But to omit the numerous less privileged countries, or even the less privileged majority part of supposedly powerful countries in order to clown on the US does not sit right with me.North Korea is absolutely not one of them and you would know if you read even a slight bit about the stories from the defectors, or corroborate their stories with stories from Chinese merchants shipping supplies to North Korea and their interactions with North Korean soldiers.

Dylan16807: > You are assuming women in those countries don’t enjoy studying these subjects.It does not assume that. Even with equal enjoyment of multiple subjects, there's a lot of other factors that affect what you study. And people pick subjects that aren't their favorite all the time.> Also, to pursue a hard STEM degree or phd would detract from being a housewife, so no “oppressive” husband would allow that in the first place. Ergo the women pursuing these paths are not oppressed in the first place.What percent of the women in these programs are already married? That counterargument only applies to women that currently have husbands, not women worried about future husbands.

JumpCrisscross: > think the US (and probably Germany too) is an outlier here because of the number of immigrants who arrive to study STEM degrees"About 30 percent of STEM degree holders living in the United States are immigrants" [1]. (I can't find data for Germany.)So sigificant as a fraction of immigrants. But not particularly meaningful to the trend.[1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/stem-immigration-diversity-gaps#:~...

nixon_why69: Iran did suspend the nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief. What happened to that deal again?