Discussion
calvinmorrison: so what is going to happen? Will California issue slave catcher warrants for those who violate laws? will Free Stater sheriffs dispatch citizens on long haul flights to meet their fate in the Golden State?
beeburrt: Fuck yeah! I was wondering about this.
logdahl: Of course :^) I'm close to jumping ship to GrapheneOS, but as a Swedish resident I really need our digital id services, digital mailbox, and banking apps. I have seen their page on app support, but I am slightly afraid its not up to date / will break any time. I guess the solution is to use one banking android phone and one GrapheneOS for everyday use.
girvo: Do the banking apps have features that the (mobile?) websites do not? Genuine question, I have no frame of reference for Swedish banks
izacus: You can't login to those without app as a 2FA.
Sophira: I have to wonder how this will impact their partnership with Motorola. Presumably, Motorola will have more difficulty if they're found not to be complying with relevant law...I hope GrapheneOS isn't completely banking on their partnership succeeding. If Motorola devices ever became the only devices that GrapheneOS works on, and it's being done with Motorola's blessing, then it could be more easily legislated out of existence.
nickorlow: I'd think they just can't sell the phones preloaded with graphene in regions where these laws exist.
fleebee: I can only speak for my bank (Nordea), but they do offer a separate 2FA device you can order if you "can't use" your smartphone for whatever reason. As a solution it sucks, but technically you're not forced to use a mobile phone to login. I'd be surprised if other banks didn't offer similar fallbacks.
gslepak: If you're considering switching to GrapheneOS from iOS, here's a guide: https://blog.okturtles.org/2024/06/the-ultimate-ios-to-graph...
blacksmith_tb: I appreciate the principled stand, but on the other hand the CA law only requires users to self-identify when setting up accounts (and then the OS will expose age to apps), that seems fairly toothless (though wrongheaded) compared to TX and UT wanting to scan photo IDs[1]1: https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/cali...
buckle8017: Sounds like your issue is with your government.
amarant: It's not an issue, we're just spoiled. It's such an amazing convenience that anything else seems like a huge and unnecessary hassle.There is actually more a second MFA provider that is accepted almost everywhere, including the tax authority. I forget it's name and I've never tried it, so I can't say too much, but presumably it provides similar functionality as BankID
varispeed: You can have these apps on a separate device that lives in a drawer like paper documents would. We need to separate state from private life.
varispeed: If Motorola releases a phone with flagship specs that runs LineageOS, I am buying.
joecool1029: They have a Graphene partnership, not a LineageOS one. The latter is entirely up to volunteers to port it.
monkaiju: Id also want to load GOS myself, pre-loading it seems like it defeates some of the point
RRRA: Canadians not being able to disable Amber alerts sent at presidential level all the time might also be interested to be able to sleep again...
joecool1029: One of the reasons I build my own LineageOS builds is because of terrible one-party consent recording laws (in places like California) there’s no geographic way in Android to check it on a state-by-state way. It just goes off country code and disables it for the US since quite a few states it’s illegal to do. For my state it isn’t illegal so I modified my builds to allow it.There are other things like this too in Android disabled on per-country. Japan has a camera shutter noise that cannot be disabled but this was a request by their carriers, apparently not a law, big discussion under this review: https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/android_frameworks_...
BobbyJo: Why should we be ok with laws just because they won't accomplish anything?
leca: Jesus Christ it woke me the fuck up
crimsonnoodle58: Related and also on the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47479183
nullpoint420: Until CA matches the TX and UT laws. Boiling the frog
glass1122: I hope you are allowed to operate in Canada Freely. If I am right, there is already something called Bill C-22, which is again a censorship and state level surveillance act under the guise of Child protection. Sooner or later Canada introduce this rule too.
ipcress_file: The bill to watch on age verification is S-209 (the "S" because it originates in the Senate). Section 12(2) includes the requirements for potential verification methods. https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/bill/S-209/first-...Keep an eye on michaelgeist.ca. If there are petitions to sign to oppose it, you'll probably find out there.
phendrenad2: [delayed]
jibe: To be clear, the Texas law only applies to mobile app stores, not the operating system, and there is no requirement to scan photo ID, just the vague,” commercially reasonable method of verification.”
incompatible: "Commercially reasonable" would be something cheap, like ask a chatbot for an opinion.
EmbarrassedHelp: Does GrapheneOS fix that problem as well? Because at some point sending everything at the max alert level is going to get people killed. The max alert level should be reserved only for immediately threats to your life in the nearby area, because otherwise you train people to ignore the alerts.
iLoveOncall: Reading the pros and cons list made it very clear to me that I'll never switch to GrapheneOS.
wilkystyle: Not sure why you are being downvoted, as this is a very valid conclusion for you to arrive at, individually.To those downvoting, please note that this person did not say that nobody should switch, only that the information provided was a clear indication that it is not the right fit for them.I, for one, greatly appreciated the detailed pro/con list in the post, as many of these would be genuine annoyances to me, and would have probably taken several months to encounter all of them.
surgical_fire: Likewise, my plan will be to have GrapheneOS as my "real" OS, and a cheap secondary phone for banking app and whatnot.
wolvoleo: Exactly, works pretty well for me!
wolvoleo: I just have an old phone for all the banking stuff. And I use degoogled phones for real stuff. I don't need my bank when I'm out anyway.Not using grapheneos though because pixels are expensive in my country.
Telaneo: > Wireless alerts are completely optional since GrapheneOS adds a toggle for the otherwise mandatory presidential alert type. This is particularly useful in Canada where the government abuses the system and sends every type of alert as a presidential alert to stop users from being able to opt out of weather and amber alerts.https://grapheneos.org/features#other-features
diowldxiks: I did the switch to graphene on my pixel 9 pro recently and have 0 regrets. it's just a better OS than the google infected android. Here's what I did:* Follow instructions to install graphene on their website: https://grapheneos.org/install/* Set up a private space which will be used for google play services required apps (bank stuff, etc). Install google play and google play services in the private space. Do not install google play services on your main profile. Set the private space to lock after 5 mins of inactivity. Set up google play on a brand new google account. You'll need to provide a phone number during setup. I used my normal phone number, others who are more concerned about deanonymization could use rental phone numbers or other things. Install any apps into the private space.* Try to install apps on your main profile, ideally open source, privacy respecting stuff. Some recent apps I've found that work great and replace google infested stuff - AntennaPod for podcasts, OrganicMaps for OSM maps, Obsidian for notetaking (google keep), KOReader for ebooks, Molly/Signal for messaging. Vanadium as the default browser works well, except it doesn't have adblock plus for youtube (it does some other ad blocking though and works fine).Things I still don't have a great solution for:* Android auto - I don't think it works from a private space due to auto locking. Still figuring this out* Spotify - since it also needs to run in the background and I haven't found a better music replacement.Overall graphene has been a far better experience and I like it much more, and feel more in control of my hardware.
