Discussion
'Absolutely spectacular': Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon
islandbytes: Incredible achievement but I'll be honest — if you showed me this photo without context I would have no idea it was the far side. Just looks like the Moon. Also didn't realize we could capture an image like this in what I assumed was total darkness.
jleyank: I'm going to be VERY disappointed if there's no Pink Floyd music or commentary from the Artemis mission. Particularly now. Life's short, and one can't be serious all the time...Wallis and Gromit would be a partial substitute, but the boomers are still around.
nasretdinov: I like how most people's reactions at this point are "yeah, whatever", as if it's every day that humans observe the far side of the moon with a naked eye through a window :). We do know what it looks like and we have photos from the surface, yes, but seeing the reaction from real people who're actually there does hit different, at least for me
izzydata: People are struggling to afford every day life and we are surrounding by crazy things every day like cellphones talking to satellites in space. On any objective measure it is definitely amazing to send humans to the moon, but there are more pressing issues for most people right now.If we as a species had more of our ducks in a row we may be able to better celebrate this as the achievement for humankind that it is.
whateveracct: "kids starving in africa"
workfromspace: I wish the crew quoted "there is no dark side of the moon really. As a matter of fact, it's all dark."
b00ty4breakfast: it's amazing, but I'll refer you to Gil Scott-Heron for my feelings on the matter A rat done bit my sister Nell With whitey on the moon Her face and arms began to swell And whitey's on the moon I can't pay no doctor bills But whitey's on the moon Ten years from now I'll be payin' still While whitey's on the moon The man just upped my rent last night Cause whitey's on the moon No hot water, no toilets, no lights But whitey's on the moon I wonder why he's upping me? Cause whitey's on the moon? Well I was already giving him fifty a week With whitey on the moon Taxes taking my whole damn check Junkies making me a nervous wreck The price of food is going up And as if all that shit wasn't enough: A rat done bit my sister Nell With whitey on the moon Her face and arm began to swell And whitey's on the moon Was all that money I made last year For whitey on the moon? How come I ain't got no money here? Hmm! Whitey's on the moon Y'know I just 'bout had my fill Of whitey on the moon I think I'll send these doctor bills Airmail special To whitey on the moon
fooblaster: It's fine to not be interested, but this time one of the astronauts is black
herodotus: I am curious. If it is on the far side, where does the light come from for the photos? Other stars?
nkrisc: The moon is tidally locked with the Earth, which means the same side always faces the Earth. So, for example, when the moon is between the Earth and the sun, the far side (from the perspective of Earth) would be fully illuminated by the sun.The “far side” of the moon refers to the hemisphere that can’t be seen from Earth.
dust42: Yes, and right now is full moon, thus the far side is only illuminated by stars.
bluegatty: nah, it just seems like that on Twitter. We have more prosperity by far than we've ever had in history, this is a time to celebrate.We have our 'ducks in a row' more now than in the 1960's when we went to the moon because of a cold war and nuclear annihilation / escalation.My grandparents were born on farms with no electricity, plumbing, there was no real 'police' no social services, no healthcare, no antibiotics, 10% of children did not make it past age 1. That's in living memory.Despite the insanity on the news, it's mostly drama, and we still have more people coming out of abject poverty than ever.We have 'modern world problems', they are real problems for sure, but they are of a different scale entirely.Frankly, it may never even get that much better as we may be hitting diminishing marginal returns on 'progress' - we now have to figure out how to live 'long lives and stay healthy'.It's a fine time to go to the moon.
rybosome: I just came across this poem a few days ago and had the opportunity to think about it.It’s a valuable perspective to hear. As someone prone to getting caught up in the breathless excitement about science, progress, human achievement, etc., it is a hard truth that these things are abstract and not relevant for people who are struggling with day-to-day life, particularly when those struggles are a result of the same government that is executing this mission.However, the older I get, the less I bind to the idea of a single, correct truth. This perspective doesn’t invalidate the perspective that the mission is valuable. The complexity of the system in which this is taking place means that these things (moon missions and affordable healthcare) aren’t fungible for one another; his poverty wasn’t the result of the moon mission, it was the result of EVERYTHING that had happened over the 100 years prior.So it’s useful to hear. It’s a sharp, valid reality check for those of us who like to think in big, abstract concepts. And, it’s one perspective among myriad valid perspectives.
xoac: Kind of a false dichotomy. How about medical care as a right for a big abstract concept? He's not anti-science here, he's against the inequality of it's distribution.
BigTTYGothGF: That's because it's the near side, not the far side.
ufo: There's a little bit of far side on the right of the picture.
_fw: Am I losing it? They can’t be seeing the far side of the moon right now, because they haven’t adjusted course to go round the far side of the moon yet…So does this suggest the BBC is wrong and it’s the side of the moon we’re used to seeing, but just it’s “dark”?But then the astronauts are saying it’s weird seeing the moon in a whole new light (excuse the paraphrasing pun).I don’t understand.
raverbashing: Yeah your life must really suck if you only care about immediate hurdles and pains without making room for hope or creativity
jameslars: And your life might be very privileged to so flippantly disregard anyone’s reality that is just that difficult.
trial3: you’re making their point, you just don’t know it yet
notorandit: Far side != Dark side
sneak: It’s approximately the dark side when the moon is full, which happened two days ago.
raverbashing: Yes and (IIRC) they don't want to flyby while at full moon on the far side as to have some shadows to help differentiate the terrain
davidw: I wonder why they decided on that timing? If it were better illuminated by the sun, couldn't they get some better photography?
davidw: It makes me tear up seeing the absolute 'best of us' as humanity striving and exploring in the midst of so much wretched evil and awfulness.
roelschroeven: Have a look at the tracker at https://issinfo.net/artemis.htmlThey're already at a point where they see the moon from a different angle than we see it from Earth, enough to see a bit of the side that we can't see from here.
hagbard_c: Yes, I remember that nihilistic piece of race rage bait and I remember it well. Now that 'non-whitey' is gliding past the moon and has shown he is past all that race-rage baiting by stating that [1] this is just — this is human history ... It’s the story of humanity — not black history, not women’s history I hope that the like of Scott-Heron and those who like to push this type of narrative are willing to finally take that hammer to ram down that nail into the coffin of the 'system racism narrative'.No, I'm not holding my breath, the narrative if far too profitable for far too many people [2] to be put to rest.[1] https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-black-astronaut-on-arte...[2] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/11151740-racism-is-not-dead...
ceejayoz: They’re far enough out that they can see some stuff you don’t see from Earth. They aren’t seeing the entire far side yet.
AnduCrandu: I think they're saying they can see a sliver of the far side, and that seeing the moon from a slightly different angle is weird having seen the near side so often. But they didn't really make that clear.
lurking_swe: people have been struggling to afford every day life for decades. So that’s nothing new. Unless only people in the 1st world count as people lol.You’re either emotionally consumed by the human struggle or not, it’s a personality thing - in my opinion. You’re allowed to be poor and a nerd, unless I missed the memo. I’ve met poor and wealthy people that are excited by space.
d-e-r-e-k: There’s too many problems here on earth for me to get excited about a trip to the moon
czbond: Optimism will get you through.... Humans have bumpy rides, but in the aggregate we figure it out and move on
nixon_why69: I'm not being a hater, but we landed on the moon 55+ years ago and now we're doing a flyby with 35+ year-old engine tech. It's good that we're doing something but we should be doing better.
layer8: Latest published image of the moon: https://www.nasa.gov/image-detail/amf-art002e009006/Photo and video gallery: https://www.nasa.gov/gallery/journey-to-the-moon/
GolfPopper: Speaking for myself (who has been fascinated with the space program since I was a small child), any joy I might feel around Artemis II feels tainted, by the immense amount of pork involved (SLS is called "Senate Launch System" for good reason) to the point where Artemis is more corporate welfare that happens to involve the Moon than a real space program, and by my belief that it is intended to be little more than a quick, dirty, and vainglorious Apollo repeat by a failing government.
al_borland: I ran across this video[0] yesterday with Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about how it’s always been political. The first moon landing was more about global politics than science. As a child you likely weren’t concerned about that side of it, or were shielded from it.It isn’t always the purist motivations that push the human race forward, but forward it moves us.[0] https://youtu.be/j_AlXChA9F4
Bnjoroge: the hell does that have to do with anything
philipallstar: They could've employed the astronauts to be waiters in Africa.
runjake: Hence the use of first glimpse.
JKCalhoun: In fact a trip to the Moon gives me hope for our species—that not everything is shit.
philipallstar: It's that difficult but they're also commenting on hn.
mathgeek: “First glimpse of the dark side of the moon” rather than “the whole dark side of the moon”. Title is pretty accurate for my understanding.
ranger207: They want to fly by at lunar sunrise as the shadows help see depth better. Also, they have very sensitive cameras (up to 3,280,000 ISO!); the Earth photo the other day was taken at night, so you can see how they'll be able to get detail even in the dark parts
NooneAtAll3: except it's new moon and you're spreading misinformation
throwatdem12311: Of course the video cuts off what the black man had to say.https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWvRjeEgecb/?igsh=MXZoYjZobDM...
Cider9986: That is a shame they cut that out.
kklisura: Something in a style of Chris Hadfield [1]. That would be great![1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOC9danxNo
implements: Remember that they’re not flying towards the Moon but to a point in space where they and the Moon will be closest together in a day or two, hence the Moon is now ‘off to their side’ and they can see a segment of it that is hidden to Earth observers … I think.Also, the dark side of the Moon is often illuminated but we call it dark because it’s also hidden from earth due to the Earth and Moon being tidally locked (the same side of each always faces the other body).
nine_k: In 2-3 years we should expect a Starship mission to Moon, at a much more sensible scale, as in the amount of scientific gear and actual researchers delivered to the surface (and then back).
dreamcompiler: The manned space program launches from Florida but is controlled from Houston. Why? Wouldn't it make more sense to have both in the same place?Florida is because there's no other safe place in the US to launch a big rocket on an easterly trajectory than Florida. Or the extreme southern tip of Texas, which SpaceX uses.Houston because NASA needed LBJ's support.
mlfreeman: Also don't forget about working in "That's no moon. It's a space station." somewhere.
gus_massa: It got deleted now. It would be nice to see a new versions if abailable.So, let's make some guess, but IANAA. Orion is in the middle of the trip going to the meeting point to the Moon in a quite straight line but the Moon is still not there. It will be there in 2 or 3 days, that is like 45° of the orbit. O . . o Earth > . . . . Moon Orion in 3 days . . . . . . o Moon now Using some sloppy Math and sloppy Astronomy, I estimate that the difference between our point of view and their point of view is 20° or 30°. So the visible surface has like a 10% difference, that is consistent to call it a "glimpse". My estimation is also similar to the graphic posted in Reddit, but I'm not sure what was the problem.I actually can't tell the difference in the photo to save my life, but I have a friend that is astronomer and I'm sure that if I show the photo to him, he could use a sharpie to mark the difference on my screen without any problem.
selimthegrim: Wanda Sykes is also famous for a pithier more recent take on it
whateveracct: the comment i'm replying to is saying that the moon mission is morally dubious because we haven't solved domestic poverty
ailef: He didn't imply it's morally dubious, I just read it as "people have more pressing matters to direct their attention to than this".
layer8: What you link to is from a different interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpPTnR5jin0
ryandrake: Where does that 2-3 year figure come from? Elon's mouth only?
kklisura: On one of Apollo missions they've read from Bible, Book of Genesis [1]. I wish they did something like that here - and I'm not even a Christian, let alone religious. They did relay some beautiful message [2] though.[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4tDZye57D4[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELslc6O4UVk
delecti: I sure hope they don't. Even just the hint of connecting this achievement to the supposed Christian nature of the US would reinforce a lot of the bad things in the world right now. Namely, that we're actively at war in the middle east (Christianity and Judaism vs Islam), in a burgeoning cold war with China (more Christianity vs "godless" communists), and run by an increasingly fascistic administration (the ties between religion and government are a hallmark of fascism).
dotancohen: I am not a Christian, but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible. Such progress happens only in high trust societies.
NooneAtAll3: current 2nd stage is underpowered, so it has to be compensated by 1st stage right from the startand since launchpad is in the north hemisphere, Moon has to be at the south part of its orbit
ryandrake: I don't think OP's problem with it is that it's "political" but that it's a product of pork and corporate welfare. The political thrust of the Apollo program was more "beat the Russians" and less "funnel money into dozens of already-rich corporations in favored districts." Even thought there was a lot of that, too. Modern space (and defense) projects seem to be almost 100% "pork funnel" and zero anything else.
EvanAnderson: I know the RS-25 engines[0] (aka SSME, Space Shuttle Main Engine) were "reusable" in an academic sense (needing a ton of refurbishment after each use) but it hurts my heart that we're dropping them in the ocean and it makes it hard for me to feel good about the Artemis program. It's irrational but it makes the kid who loved the Space Shuttle (which, itself, was a political pork barrel and a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none kind of program) sad.[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-25
bombcar: One is the domain of humanoid cows, the other is the domain of absent fathers.
brabel: My guess is that this mission is not about imaging the far side of the Moon at all as that has been done already.
davidw: Fair, but these images are going to get a lot of public attention, so making them good ones would be worthwhile.
bombcar: The pork funnel is going to exist unless something major changes; so I'd rather get moonshots out of the pork.
jedberg: > but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible.Many of the founders were specifically anti-Christian. They were deists, and believed in a higher power, but specifically rejected the idea of a divine intervention of God or Jesus.Christians do not own the idea of being nice to others and trusting others.
InsideOutSanta: Why are you so angry about a black person's perspective of what the moon landing meant to them? Rather than putting a nail in the coffin of the "systemic racism narrative", your post underlines how long we still have to go as a society to take black people's perspectives seriously, rather than simply denigrating them as "race bait."
baal80spam: I see what you mean, but I kind of understand the reaction: what does this change in 99.99% of people lives? Nothing at all. It's not necessarily ignorance.
NetMageSCW: I think in this case more than 0.1% feel a bit of inspiration in a time of darkness.
xkcd1963: Where is the tangible proof my friend
kelnos: I get the general frustration there, but it's weird to focus on NASA's budget when it's such a teeny tiny fraction of the total.Yes, there's a lot of government waste, but NASA ain't it.And I would suggest that the billionaire class and unfettered capitalism are far more responsible for the modern day version of Scott-Heron's woes than the good ol' government scapegoat.
elteto: If DOGE served for anything at all it was for showing that there isn’t even that much “waste” per se. If there’s any waste it’s in the Pentagon which can’t even audit itself, but of course DOGE didn’t even get close to that. It was all performative for them.
dbacar: Rather than the far side, what about the Dark Side of the Moon?
kqr: Because it's not always dark. Only during a full moon on Earth is the far side fully dark.
syncsynchalt: ... matter of fact it's all dark.(The moon has an albedo of 12%)
syncsynchalt: Take a look at https://issinfo.net/artemis.htmlYour illustration is about right, but the angle they're catching now is even a bit further than you've shown.
jibal: In the aggregate we live miserable lives and then die.
NetMageSCW: That was true the last time we went to the Moon, but this time in the aggregate we live less miserable lives.
areoform: It's interesting to me how cautious NASA is being with Artemis II. I wrote about the risk / mortality calculation behind this, but everything from the trajectory, the decision not to do an orbital insertion, the checkout in high-Earth orbit is very cautious.I wish this mission took greater risks. Or, just at least go as far as Apollo 8, but stay for a bit longer, and try out new things. It would be fun to take a finicky low mass radio telescope experiment to the far side of the moon.
dd_xplore: I don't think they'd or any other space mission will take that much risk anymore. Atleast without the pressure/tension of cold war space race.
