Discussion

Apple Just Lost Me

pier25: I don't hate iOS 26 as much as I thought I would but macOS 26 has been a disaster. I'm staying qith Sequoia for as long as I can. Hopefully Apple will fix this mess in macOS 27 or 28.

dionian: I like liquid glass. I liked it since the first betas i tried. Am i the only one

baal80spam: At this point I am pretty sure it's the loud vocal minority that hates it. Vast majority is either indifferent or actually likes it (but liking something doesn't sell).

kstrauser: I think it’s fine. It definitely needs some polish and there are other, unrelated changes like the big round corners that I dislike, but Liquid Glass itself is just… different. And appearance aside, I genuinely like some of the updated UI patterns, such as making buttons look like things you can interact with instead of undifferentiated text.It’s OK to dislike glass, of course. I’m not saying doubters are wrong. A lot of it, though, fills like piling on to sound like one of the cool kid skeptics.

superkuh: >Credit cards are not documents. Many people don’t have them. Apple don’t provide any other way to verify your age because they are a stupid American company with American values in which you’re just as human as your credit score.This is the way ID verification is going in the USA and the reasons for it seem clear. A human person is only useful to a corporation if they have money to give the corporation. If you don't have provable money, either through a third party corporate payment service willing to pay for you sometime later (a credit card) or by giving a corporation your login details to your bank account (ie, Plaid), then you're not a human.It clear what a bot is now: anything that doesn't have provable money.

neya: > A human person is only useful to a corporation if they have money to give the corporation.This is spot on. This is the same tactic used by the affiliate marketers back in the day to qualify leads - Free book, just pay for shipping! Or, get this e-book for just $1 (so we can upsell you a $97 product later)

stego-tech: This is honestly why I've been getting deeper into Linux and self-hosting since early COVID. As much as I've loved my M1 Pro MBP, Apple's OS decisions - and my career expectation to always be on the latest version of OSes/software to help vet organizational migrations - have basically killed my enthusiasm for their kit. The hardware is phenomenal; the software does not spark joy.And if I'm being frank, my time with Linux (Debian 13 on an N100 NUC w/ Docker) has really opened my eyes to just how excessive modern compute is, specifically to power increasingly bogged-down operating systems and woefully inefficient software. The N100 sips energy while happily transcoding 4K video streams on Jellyfin, running my IRC server for friends to hop off Discord, reverse proxying my entire home network, letting me stream game nights via Owncast, host some image board shitposts for various friend groups, host my RSS Aggregator, and still yawns with 75% excess capacity left over.I'll still have a Mac because that's what my family uses (if they want free tech support from me, that is), and I'll still have my Windows gaming PC, but I'm already drafting up cyberdeck plans for my first primary Linux box, with just a CLI to get me by. Realizing I don't actually need ten cores and 32GB of RAM and a hefty GPU to do daily work is pretty damn revelatory - and shows how grotesque mass-market software and OSes have become in the name of marketing cycles and advertising dollars.

souvlakius: I think it's also related to the fact that the US and the UK don't have ID documents the way that a lot of EU countries have and many people don't have passports, so the only other way left that has an API and is checking periodically that you are who you claim is your bank before giving you a fresh credit card

pfraze: Age verification has been put into law across the world over the last year. Apple doesn’t have a choice.

jedahan: They certainly have more choices than implementing in this manner, and can choose to not implement it as well.Absolving Apple of responsibility gives more than they deserve.

everdrive: Another nail in the coffin, but the author fails to realize that the only viable answer here is to move towards relying on your smartphone as little as possible. You can get a fairphone, or whatever, but will anything in the real world (outside of old fashioned websites) actually talk to the thing?

dgxyz: I agree with this as well. The only things I really need on my "smartphone" are a browser, mail client (offline that does IMAP), organic maps, whatsapp and obviously a phone. I can do everything else some other way without too much inconvenience.

ltbarcly3: Apple has gone from a company with a long term vision of the future and their part in it to a quarterly financial report gradient climber. This is what happens to every company when it loses it's founder(s). They have enough money and market influence to be a problem for all of us for the next 30 years or so.

elictronic: Jobs died 15 years ago. So your predicting 45 years after the death of a founder a company loses influence.

tonyedgecombe: [delayed]

txdv: Worst part about liquid glass changes is that it was probably rushed so they could cover for lack of AI features that they promised a year ago

Papazsazsa: They lost me this week too when they refused my Apple Care replacement.My watch (and several other valuables) were stolen on the DC-to-NYC Acela. Because I had not selected the ‘correct’ Apple Care plan, the only thing the CSR would do is “recommend I call my credit card company.” She refused to escalate, insisted there were no other options, and was insufferably corpo-patronizing; “I understand how frustrating this is.”Looking forward to getting out of the ecosystem. With that much cash on hand, instead of reinvesting in quality AAPL has lost the thread.

lynndotpy: The space allocated for "Apple has lost their way" has been maxed out for decades, so it bears stressing that this time is different. This Liquid Glass debacle has disillusioned everyone from hardcore Apple fans to normal people who otherwise don't follow tech.Once the dust settles, this will be a case study for decades to come. Apple threw their hard-won reputational gains off a cliff for _nothing_.

gilrain: > threw their hard-won reputational gains off a cliff for _nothing_I imagine some executive’s ego was spared by not telling them their idea was bad. Priceless.

pfraze: I was sure I’d hate it. But I actually think it’s pretty good

hn_throwaway_99: I found this to be a very odd and strange rant. The author's three issues with Apple are:1. Gatekeeping. OK, fine, but at the very least this has been Apple's stance for a very long time now (the author talks about faxing credit card details), so it's not like it's something new. If you wanted full unfettered installation rights, Apple was never the company for you. And while I think it's fine to argue against Apple's stance, I find most of the arguments are less than honest about the pros of things like developer verification for the end user.2. mac OS26. I totally agree that this is a total fiasco from a design perspective, and liquid glass is unqualified shit. Still, I see Apple at least somewhat moving in the right direction by getting rid of Alan Dye.3. Apple had a bug in their age verification protocol. Again, valid point, but Apple needs to follow UK law. I've seen a lot more missives arguing against requiring things like driver's licenses and other government ID, and so it seems like Apple is at least trying to go the least restrictive route by choosing credit card verification.To emphasize, I'm not apologizing for Apple here. In particular, much has been written about how Apple has lost their way regarding the "it just works" philosophy. But it seems like the author's main beef is against Apple's level of control, and this is just a fundamental difference in Apple's stance that has existed for about 2 decades.

femiagbabiaka: I like it as well, although it was and is very buggy in certain instances.

DauntingPear7: No. I kinda like it. I can understand people’s dislike for it though.

frogpelt: [delayed]

Ragnarork: What's odd and strange about this? Author clearly specifies this at the start:> To summarise for yous there are three main issues for me and the last one happened today and is what pushed me through the threshold.The compounding led to this, not that individual issues existed (and have been a problem) for a while.

monegator: nitpick: just changed my monitor to a UWQHD one. The text on this blog occupies 1/6 of the screen, 5/6 of white. If i only use half the screen for the broswer, it would be 1/3 and 2/2. Still too much white space for me.Anyway: Not sure why fairphone. While i like the concept it's still an android phone, eos is not much better than lineage. If i had to change today i would go again for a Pixel 8A (or a series 10) and graphene. But if the OP can wait and see, next year we should get replaceable batteries everywhere because EU, and maybe wait and see whatever motorola is cooking for graphene. Or check out the pinephone and go full linux.. i guess, when i'll have some spare cash to throw away..

wrqvrwvq: I've seen far more non-design-obsessed people (normals) complaining about it, but in the end i think the better question is why? What possible purpose does this serve other than key-jangling? It is a distraction for most people and a waste of screen space and probably gpu cycles, why are we shading and filtering on every frame on every window and modal? Just render the pane and put the fries in the bag.

AlexandrB: The waste of screen space is the big one for me. It feels like every company is racing to dumb down their products and fill their UI with whitespace instead of using that space for controls or content. My bank just redesigned their website and now even checking the balance of a few accounts + credit cards requires scrolling on a 1080p display. Ridiculous.

pixelpoet: > Gatekeeping. OK, fine, but at the very least this has been Apple's stance for a very long time nowAre you sure you're not apologising for Apple?

alwillis: > Gatekeeping. OK, fine, but at the very least this has been Apple's stance for a very long time nowThe point is this person has been dealing with Gatekeeper for a long time but all of sudden it’s a deal breaker?

dgxyz: We just got fucked by this today. My 22 year old daughter doesn't have a driving license or a credit card but does have a passport and it didn't work. She's now got a kids phone. I haven't tried the 20 year old yet who is in the same situation...They have 5 days to unfuck this or I'm literally rolling out Pixels + Graphene to the family.Edit: already have a Linux desktop sitting here as an exit plan for the Mac

ta9000: This seems like a rational approach as opposed to say, calling Apple support.

joering2: > 3. Apple had a bug in their age verification protocol. Again, valid point, but Apple needs to follow UK law.No they don't. They need to grow balls. They pay hefty tax rates in UK. If they would announce they are leaving UK market in 90 days, I bet you would find enough politicians to change the course of this terrible law.

classified: > They pay hefty tax rates in UK.Are you sure?

its_ethan: Apple paid 304m in taxes on 1200m in profits in the UK. That's ~25% tax rate on profits. It's entirely subjective to say if that's a "pretty hefty" rate or not, but it seems to be pretty standard for G20 countries.I suspect the UK wouldn't love losing that 304m, but Apple would also probably not enjoy losing the 1200m of profits either.It's almost like international companies having to deal with legislation in every country they operate in is a more complicated topic than could ever be hashed out in the comment sections of a tech news site...https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2025/07/apples-uk-tax-b...

pfraze: You are aware that the law applies to Linux desktops and will likely be included in a system update soon?

dgxyz: You do realise I am free to modify it or pick a distribution so that isn't the case too?

pfraze: How long till that’s illegal?This situation is being treated like a bad business decision. It’s not. It’s a new set of laws. It’s bigger than just Apple.

theandrewbailey: That depends on if you live in a jurisdiction that lives or dies by free speech, and if it considers code speech. Forcing you to implement age verification is forcing you to speak things you don't want to say, which isn't free speech.

iLoveOncall: > but Apple needs to follow UK lawAnd the UK law doesn't ask for device-level age verification.

dghf: To counter your downvoters:> Ofcom, the UK’s communications regulator, praised Apple for the decision, especially since it’s not required to implement age verification for the iOS or its App Store under the region’s Online Safety Act.-- https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/apple-introduces-age-verif...

jeroenhd: Apple has to do age verification because of dumb laws, but they decided to do age verification in a dumb way.The author tried to go along with the age verification system with five different cards and failed five times. For an account that's older than the legal age that would need to be verified in the first place, mind you.There are many ways to do age verification, most of them bad, but that's why most companies complying with these laws use multiple methods.

catapart: nevermind the apologist. his paycheck is paid by people that have capitulated to the same bullshit. and you know what they say about people learning lessons whom have a financial incentive not to.

irusensei: As someone who was inspired to buy their first Apple laptop by the "send all other UNIX boxes to /dev/null" ad I feel like Apple is already done and we are just catching the last remaining tail of that legacy.Seems underlying features such as kerberos, NFS, auto mount and others are just bit rotting by now and its a matter of time before MacOS becomes Windows 8.

commandersaki: Those features also have a shrinking user base over time, so they get less resources and attention.

bsimpson: > If you wanted full unfettered installation rights, Apple was never the company for youAuthor started at System 8. They didn't start locking things down until the iPhone.

catapart: right? always hilarious to see the kiddos pipe up when it's clear they have no concept of what the olds are even talking about. babies, you've never known the taste of freedom; only what a few companies have sold you as freedom-flavored.

frereubu: I'm in my fifties, have been involved in computing since I was a kid and I like Apple's stance on this because the threat landscape has changed, particularly for non-tech-savvy people. If you want that freedom there are various *nix flavours to choose from, you're not compelled to use Apple.

bengale: I think this law is the wrong way about doing what they're trying to do, but I also don't want US corps deciding what is and isn't permissible in our country.

commakozzi: I've been using Apple since 1995 on System 7.5 then through OSX to MacOS & iOS. MacOS/iOS/iPadOS 26 and Liquid Glass do not bother me one bit. I rather still enjoy using my devices running these operating systems and think that the interface is great. I also know i am not the only one.

frizlab: > They didn't start locking things down until the iPhone.They sure have tried since forever though. My uncle complained about Apple for this very reason ~20y ago…

embedding-shape: Before the iPhone, what was their attempts at that? I remember using OSX a bunch before the iPhone was public, but never remember any of the ways they tried to lock it down, I might have been too young then.

hedora: It's not really bigger than Apple. They could just say "no", and the UK could just go offline until they fixed their laws.

pfraze: Pretty sure it’s California that’s got the OS law

raincole: > Credit cards are not documents. Many people don’t have them. Apple don’t provide any other way to verify your age because they are a stupid American company with American values in which you’re just as human as your credit score.UK passed age verification law and people still find a way to blame the US.

bloppe: It's not about some American cultural attachment to credit cards. It's another classic Apple frustration move where they make the experience worse for their users in the hopes they'll blame someone else like the UK govt. They do the same thing with green bubbles.

bogdan: His complaints are that Apple only supports credit cards for age verification. Please read more carefully.

bdcravens: What process are other companies using?

daedrdev: Any system of age verification will fail to satisfy the writer, because it is fundamentally the UK’s fault by requiring such draconian measures. Credit cards don't work ever time, but the other options of using AI or sending your data to a third company who will resell it are also not great.The only other complaint seems to be liquid glass? It really feels strange because Apple feels on the upswing with their new office and their cheap, repairable mac.

izacus: Tapping a UK passport to your phone works just fine for ETA apps and it would work just fine for Apple as well.The fact that you think American corporation punishing foreign users for their laws is acceptible is sick upon itself.

AlexandrB: How many people have a passport vs a credit card? If you travel a lot, sure, but some folks never leave their hometown.

xnorswap: In the UK More people have passports than have credit cards, the assumption otherwise is precisely the culture-clash that the article is complaining about.

suddenlybananas: More Brits have passports (86.5% [1]) than credit cards (64% [2]).[1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati...[2] https://www.money.co.uk/credit-cards/credit-card-statistics

golfer: These "breaking up with Apple" stories pop up from time to time here. Cracks me up because they all follow the same pattern:"I'm done with Apple. I've been a Mac user since since $EARLY_YEAR. I loved using $OLD_APPLE_HARDWARE to work on $VARIOUS_INTERESTING_PROJECTS. I fondly recall $FORMATIVE_APPLE_MEMORY.But they've gone too far. $NEW_APPLE_ENSHITTIFICATION is the last straw, I can't do this any more. This will be hard because $REASONS. But I'm going to adopt $PLATFORM because it's the right thing to do."Most of them mention Steve Jobs but this one didn't actually.

mikepurvis: What is it that bothers you about this type of discussion? For myself I just switched back to Android after a decade of iOS so I'm always interested in what it was that was the last straw for others.(for me it was interop issues around wearables and trackers; I want to use chipolo and a pebble watch and not feel punished every day for going out of the ecosystem)

golfer: It doesn't bother me at all -- in my post, I said it cracks me up. They all have their reasons for breaking up with Apple. FYI I'm not an Apple guy myself.

dghf: > Ofcom, the UK’s communications regulator, praised Apple for the decision, especially since it’s not required to implement age verification for the iOS or its App Store under the region’s Online Safety Act.https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/apple-introduces-age-verif...

JSR_FDED: Building on the incredible success of MacOS 26 Tahoe, I can hardly wait for MacOS 27 Tehran.

ApolloFortyNine: Any age verification should come with an OAUTH style government run API. The idea being you verify your ID with the government, and the service that required age verification gets back a true or false for does this user meet this age requirement. That way the amount of data shared is kept to a minimum.The UK, and Brazil who passed a similar law, 'cheated' by just forcing private companies to figure it out.

irusensei: Ironic that Brazil government tends to pay lip service to digital sovereignty while forcing their own citizens to handle their data to Zuckerberg and Peter Thiel.

estebank: A law can be bad and its implementation can be worse.

CGMthrowaway: We need to start calling it identity verification. Because that's what it is, anything that requires you to hand over an ID or credit card."Age" verification was a wonderful trojan horse that has fooled a lot of people.

bdcravens: > Even though my software is packaged and notarised as per their requirements, they still show my users a dialog box confirming they want to run my app, something they do not for apps installed through their walled garden. This is just friction to punish developers outside their store. I am very tired of it.Does them quitting Apple mean they're going to stop supporting MacOS users?

bluepeter: Reminds me of early adult sites, where "age verification" meant entering a credit card number. It was sold as compliance, but it also preloaded the payment vessel and made purchases one click easier. Same incentive at work here.

stavros: The EU is already implementing this in the best way it's ever going to be implemented:https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-age-ver...I really don't like this perfect law enforcement future, but this EU initiative is about the best design one can have.

chuckadams: [delayed]

rjrjrjrj: The problem is that when they start using $PLATFORM, they realize that it can't do many of the things that they've taken for granted since $EARLY_YEAR.

cheschire: For anyone that is bothered by the glass effect…-Accessibility options-Display & Text Size-Turn on “Reduce Transparency”I forgot glass was even a thing as I immediately turned it on day one.

richrichardsson: I doubt they will. I suspect the rumours of a touch screen MacBook are likely true and that's the reason for the shitshow that is Tahoe's UI.

Pay08: I struggle to believe that Liquid Glass was one person's fault.

AdamN: It was probably a cascade of people but the question is whether we all realize Apple was right or if they just implemented it wrong or if it will just take a year or two to get things dialed in (but still prepared for an AR/VR world) and then we forget it ever happened.

aenis: It's a leadership failure. They obviously have a UI/UX dept. Those people want to be considered productive. Hence, they need to force a major redesign every now and then. Without a Steve Jobs like leader, those things will happen due to fundamental laws of corporate bureaucracy.

alwillis: > It's a leadership failure. They obviously have a UI/UX dept. Those people want to be considered productive.They had a guy who had no UI/UX experience leading the UI/UX team. He left for Meta thank goodness [1].[1]: “Alan Dye Leaves Apple for Meta, Replaced by Longtime Designer Stephen Lemay” — https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/12/03/alan-dye-leaves...

roger_: Criticize gatekeeping all you want, but I feel it’s safer to recommend a Mac or iPhone to an older, non-technical person than the equivalent Windows / Android machine.And I’m still able to install any app I want with minimal fuss.

swiftcoder: While Ofcom hasn't required it yet, they have indicated that they very much plan to[1]. Apple is pretty clearly getting out ahead of this, and simultaneously removing the burden of compliance off all of the relevant app developers (which seems in line with their overall privacy stance - I'm more inclined to trust Apple with my ID than I am some social network)[1]: https://www.rpclegal.com/snapshots/consumer/winter-2025/ofco...

thelastgallon: Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4750411230 days later they canceled the ABM company account and deleted all the associated users along with the Apple ID which I used to log into a testing device, which now became a fairly expensive paperweight: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47516266

karel-3d: I didn't know MNT existedhttps://shop.mntre.com/The laptops seem... crazy enough. And what you get for your buck is even less than with normal PC manufacturers, let alone Apple. You get CPU that is slow for a phone. For 1300 USD.On the other hand I have a weird urge to buy one and use as a daily.

golfer: Wow, this seems to have hit a nerve, based on the early downvotes.

ta9000: Why is it a US corporation’s job to unfuck UK laws? If they did get involved, you’d blast them for meddling.

lotsofpulp: Corporations don’t belong to a single jurisdiction.

ta9000: Should Apple be responsible for righting the wrongs of legislation in every country it operates in? I don’t think so. Ideally it would mettle as little as possible, even though they clearly don’t (see right to repair).

ap99: It's more out of convenience that credit card is used.There isn't some American principle that human = credit score. Americans just don't want their government ID required to do basic things.See discord age verification controversy.

embedding-shape: Right, Apple is a US company, with typical US culture, and they always try to "follow the letter of the law but not the spirit" when it comes to privacy and also when it comes to the age checks. In this particular case, they seem to have implemented the check in the worst possible way too, even the account age is above the age limit, what's hard to figure out here?Is it surprising that people blame the company and the culture that fostered it, instead of the country that is trying to "protect itself", regardless of how misdirected that "protect itself" is?

giancarlostoro: > even the account age is above the age limit, what's hard to figure out here?I have a gmail thats old enough to drink anywhere in the world, and never used it for youtube, accidentally opened youtube, they asked me for my age. At some point, I think its okay to just use account age instead of even asking.

Swizec: > At some point, I think its okay to just use account age instead of even askingBet you there’s already a thriving grey market for old accounts with organic history.

zer00eyz: The gatekeeping, the age identification issues are both "real problems", that compound, from the same root.Anonymity allows one to behave in ways they would not "in public", with your neighbors, or co workers (for the most part). Be that building malware, or kids doing things they should not, and the people and business that take advantage of that.I don't think the UK law is a good one, but when major companies continuously fail at their social responsibility I understand why people want the government to step in. I don't think the friction apple creates is a great user experience but it is better than the old approach that ended up with systems riddled with malware and spyware because normal users don't think like the folks who built technology.Could the law have been written better: sure. "More control" over their Childs devices would have been the way. Is there a solution to the friction with apple... maybe but I'm not sure it would be that much of an improvement (its purpose IS to slow you down).

an0malous: There's a bizarre trend, especially on HN, of unjustified criticism against Apple. There are so many YC companies committing outright fraud, Palantir is building a surveillance state, a bunch of well known founders and VCs openly promote white supremacist ideology, but you'll never see more vitriol on this forum than someone complaining about the liquid glass UI or app store take rate.

chii: that's because those other things mentioned are quite irrelevant in every day life, but the apple products' quality or bad appstore practices are directly affecting the said complainer on HN.

causal: I kind of prefer Credit Card over anything else if I have to do it. I give out my CC pretty regularly already so not much new PII to lose there. But it does sound like Apple has bugs to work out.

dmantis: Yes. The point in the post is that it's very American to assume that every adult has a credit card. I'm in my thirties and I never had nor plan to have a credit card. I always have had only debit cards. In countries I've been raised and lived it's a sign of a poverty and total dependency on the bank with additional tax on your living, not an everyday tool like Americans perceive it.Debit cards can be given to an underage, so I suppose they don't accept it for this reason.

aeyes: Credit cards are a sign of poverty? Now that's a hot take.I feel in Europe having a credit card means the complete opposite, only "rich" people have credit cards.I have a credit card, I use it, I pay it off every month. Why am I seen as poor just because I have a credit card? It's just a tool. It spares me from needing to maintain a 10000$ emergency fund in my checking account.

philistine: > at least somewhat moving in the right direction by getting rid of Alan Dye.Alan Dye left of his own volition to Meta. I 100% believe he would still be there if he had not left.

mathgradthrow: wasn't that about when the iphone came out?

frizlab: First iPhone was 18 years ago, but yeah it around the time of the first iPhone. IIRC he actually mentioned that because he had already been confronted to Apple’s lockdown before the iPhone. It was a long time ago and I was young, so I don’t remember the details.

jon-wood: At least in the UK it would be entirely legal for companies to use account age as a proxy for verifying you're over the age of 18. If your Apple account is over 18 then you probably are as well.

philistine: Apple holds itself to higher standards, thus its critics hold it to a higher standard than the ghouls at Palantir.That's why I like Apple so much.

drnick1: > they are a stupid American company with American values in which you’re just as human as your credit score.Strong take from a random nobody.

servercobra: My non-techie friends either barely notice Liquid Glass or go "ooo this is nice!". It has annoyed me on occasion, but I barely notice it any more. Much ado about nothing.

debo_: I would not even have noticed it if not for visiting this website. It's possibly worse on iOS than on MacOS, but I don't have an iPhone.Now, if I was developing software for MacOS and it broke all my UIs, I would be at least as irritated as the author.

g947o: Hmm. I don't think the point is that Apple has to "fight". The point is that Apple needs a moral high ground and is willing to completely give up the UK market (which I understand but don't necessarily agree with). I don't see that happening with today's environment, considering that shareholders will happily fire Cook over that.

arjie: Reading between the lines, the author of the blog post would have gone along with the verification with annoyance if the verification had worked. What seems to have prompted everything is the credit cards failing. The fact that they couldn't use Wallet and then tried manually with all five sort of illustrates that they would have gone along with it.Edge cases like immigrants in a different land are typically unmet for these things. I remember once trying to re-activate my Google Fi SIM from my home in the UK before I returned to the US and getting a strange error message that didn't allude to the region. I got the rep on the line and they said "You're in the US, right?" and I had to bullshit something about "oh I had my VPN on" and then turned it on so I would like I was in the US and it worked then.Anyway, there's clearly one cause and the rest is just kitchen sink argumentation.

loloquwowndueo: > Edge cases like immigrants in a different landIt’s a brutal faux pas from Apple to consider immigrants an “edge case”. We are a significant group in many countries. (That said - I don’t have any banking products from my country of origin anymore)

dghf: > it is fundamentally the UK’s fault by requiring such draconian measuresIt would appear the UK doesn't:> Ofcom, the UK’s communications regulator, praised Apple for the decision, especially since it’s not required to implement age verification for the iOS or its App Store under the region’s Online Safety Act.-- https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/apple-introduces-age-verif...

stavros: Apple has done this sort of thing before, where they don't like a law, they'll implement some unnecessary and shitty feature, and then say "hey don't blame us, blame your MPs!".

johnthedebs: Sounds like you're talking about Apple disabling Advanced Data Protection in the UK? https://support.apple.com/en-us/122234Weird take to shift the blame to Apple for that.

AndriyKunitsyn: "My shepherd pokes me with a stick, but it's the tree's fault that this stick is so sharp".

eimrine: They were expected to fight the evil, not to join.

JollySharp0: None of these corporations are going to have their CEO / CTO / CFO go to Jail, face the huge fines or get kicked out of the UK for you.4chan, KiwiFarms etc. can stick a middle finger up at the UK because tbh they probably don't have that many UK users and have nothing there for the British Government to go after, the best they can do is probably nab the owner if they ever land on UK soil.

singpolyma3: How does this credit card thing even work? Are they just assuming if you have a credit card you must be an adult??

thot_experiment: What are you talking about, have you tried to exist in America without a credit score? It absolutely is an American principle, just because it's not explicitly stated in the constitution doesn't mean it's not true.

Levitz: Removing friction from a process that damages privacy is not a positive.

Retr0id: Linux runs well on M2 (and hopefully also M3 in the future)

pfraze: Indeed. There has been zero political opposition to these laws. Apple isn’t going to pay the fines on our behalf, so we need to get organizing if we don’t like this.

catapart: ah, yeah; I guess organization looks like complete capitulation and then commenting on the effect elsewhere with a sturdy shrug "whatcha gonna do? we're all just so powerless". fighting the good fight.

uyzstvqs: No, this is an absolutely terrible idea. You're suggesting a giant, centralized, government-run data silo, with all of your online activity tied to your real-world ID. This is far worse for privacy than any data broker, it's hard to even compare.Honestly I'd rather have private companies figure it out. Then at least you'll get multiple options, including from privacy-first companies. But that still sucks, and my preference strongly goes towards OS-level Age Indication. Just as effective in practice, 100% private and offline.

iAMkenough: Doesn't that exist in the U.S. already? DOGE worked to create the "one big, beautiful database" and now the federal government is buying information about citizens from data brokers.

subscribed: "This man was in the abusive relationship for so ling and suddenly he's leaving?"

marcosdumay: > The UK, and Brazil who passed a similar law, 'cheated' by just forcing private companies to figure it out.At least on the Brazilian case, it's outright illegal for a private company to implement the thing you are describing. So, if the government doesn't provide the service, there isn't much for them to figure out.

internet2000: People had the same reaction to iOS 7. They cleaned up some of the excesses over the next few years, and now the same basic concept is what people want Apple to RETURN to. They'll be fine.

layer8: I’d still want Apple to return to an iOS 6-like design. Not the super-skeuomorphic stuff, but the regular UI with discernible controls clearly separated from content.

xnorswap: It's particularly culturally deaf to try to verify with literally "credit cards".In the UK most people use debit cards instead for most things.https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/data-and-research/data/card-spe...Credit card usage is a small fraction of debit card usage. This is very different to the USA where there are more credit card transactions than debit card ones.

rafram: You can have a debit card in your own name when you're under 18, but not a credit card, meaning credit is a proxy for age but debit isn't. It's the same in the UK and the US.(They also accept an ID scan.)

arjie: I think it's unavoidable to end up triggering these since we're not really that common once it lands up with the specifics. It's rarely "immigrants" as a class but more "people with ID A in country B". I'm an Indian national with permanent residence in the US who lived in the UK. I have bank accounts in all three countries and I really don't expect them to work cross nationally reliably. If anything would, it would have to be the US stuff but I wouldn't count on it.I mean, I'd consider it important for it to work, but when it doesn't I wouldn't consider it a brutal faux pas so much as a moment of frustration at the kind of engineer who only happy-path builds.

caconym_: I don't understand the fuss around liquid glass. I've been using Apple stuff since before OS X and this just feels like another redesign; I understand that there are some accessibility issues (that I thought Apple had at least partially addressed) but I don't have any problems using it. In fact, I kinda like it. It feels like many people latched onto an extremely negative narrative early on, and can't let go of it.I have much more of a problem with the terrible window management on the mac and ipad OSs. Not being able to snap and resize windows to the edges of the screen, like every other standard window manager that exists, is insane (I know they added some version of this recently, but unsurprisingly it sucks). And the entire mac OS is starting to feel slow, bloated, and janky. They completely ruined the cmd-space search in their most recent major release. They need to get their house in order.

lynndotpy: > And the entire mac OS is starting to feel slow, bloated, and janky.It appears you do indeed understand the fuss around Liquid Glass :)The way I see it, "Liquid Glass" is used as a catch-all term to refer to all the UI changes across Apple's 2026 slate of user interfaces.For one example, the annoying Apple Watch fitness app changes are "Liquid Glass" in my book because it exists only to show off the new wobbling refracting buttons,. The loss of performance and battery life is reasonably assumed to be tied to new Liquid Glass shaders Apple aspires to run 120 times a second on the phone.

jobs_throwaway: This comment is pure whataboutism

subscribed: Several things can be wrong at the same time.

iSnow: Their previous lock-downs were on the hardware level, not offering ISA slots and stuff. The original Mac (then Mac+ and classic) had no expansion slots at all, and they started adding them only later.

danslo: If you're OK with it draining 3% battery per hour when you close the lid, sure.

sgt: If he's pissed at this, imagine how pissed he'll become when he enters the ridiculous Android ecosystem.Anyway, he's free to choose whatever, but I have to nitpick here:1. macOS 26 - a fiasco? Come on. A lot of like the liquid glass. On macOS I hardly notice it, but on iOS is actually beautiful to me. Also a long time macOS user, since 2003 btw. You can always dampen it using accessibility settings.2. Age verification ? First time I've heard of it. Also on latest iOS. But then I'm also not in the UK.3. "Interfaces built with AppKit or SwiftUI that rendered perfect, are now overlapping controls and clipping stuff. They have no consistency at all in terms of icons, placement, corners…". I'm all for constructive criticism. But where are you seeing this? I've got 8-9 apps open and none are inconsistent in my view. I'm picky about these things too. Genuinely I'd like to know.

lern_too_spel: Our choice of phone isn't between Apple and Palantir but between Apple and Android. The criticism comes from the fact that the other option is better.

jmye: Internet memes and terminal Holy Wars take nearly zero thought, effort or intelligence to post about. Just emotion and hot takes, and you're almost guaranteed a response.

soapdog: Author here. Thanks for engaging is such gentle way, this is rare these days. Let me address some of your comments and maybe you'll understand my position a bit better even if you don't agree.> 1.Gatekeeping. OK, fine, but at the very least this has been Apple's stance for a very long time now (the author talks about faxing credit card details), so it's not like it's something new. If you wanted full unfettered installation rights, Apple was never the company for you. And while I think it's fine to argue against Apple's stance, I find most of the arguments are less than honest about the pros of things like developer verification for the end user.Apple been tightening that control over time. For a long time on MacOS X you could simply run apps. Then came notarisation, but you could still disable it. Now, even with a certificate, it still shows a dialog. I wish that apps that went through notarisation would simply run like the ones from the app store without a dialog showing.> 3. (...) the least restrictive route by choosing credit card verification.But not everyone has a credit card. Those are not something you're born with or required to have or even required to have them issued from the same country you're living in. That is not the least restrictive, that is a very large assumption. What I would have liked to have seen is them providing you with options: "do you want to use credit card verification? National ID? Passport? Credit check? Etc" and then it is up to each user to decide on their risk profile and what they are okay with.As of now, my only way to verify it is by literally ordering a credit card from my UK bank when I'm pretty happy with my debit cards already.

stephc_int13: I am in the same situation. French citizen living in the UK. I never owned a credit card and I have no use for it.I can't pass the age-verification. I am 49. This alone is quite irritating, but the overall developer-hostility of Apple and the quality drift of their software is convincing me to never buy an iOS device again.And I'll probably not release any software on their platforms either.

KeplerBoy: Getting music on an ipod was always a pain unless you bought the music on itunes or ripped a music CD directly with itunes (yes, that was an actual feature. hard to imagine these days).No simple drag and drop onto a mounted USB drive like all other mp3 players back in the day. Maybe more of a lock-in attempt instead of lock down, but related imo.

dainiusse: Mate. None of the companies is worth such stress. I feel rage in you. It is just a tool. You choose what works best. That's it. No need to overthink it.

MrDrMcCoy: A smartphone is a tool that is all but required for modern life, it gets it's hooks into every detail of your life, and you have very little choice in providers, features, and functions. It makes a lot less sense to not care like this.

gib444: What can't you do without a smartphone in the UK or wherever you live? Specifically a smartphone, not just a phone number for SMS + calls.

JKCalhoun: I hope the author reports back in a year. Getting off the Apple train appeals to me, the reality of doing so looks bleak.Full disclosure: I've been in the Apple ecosystem since System 6, worked as an engineer there for 25 years. But I am as frustrated by many of the decisions Apple has made as many people I see posting.Liquid glass? This too shall pass.Locked down ecosystem? I imagine the blowback if they unlocked it and people's devices were suddenly being compromised by malware.I guess I prefer the frying pan to the fire that I feel awaits me if I jump. As I mentioned though, seeing blog posts after the jump will be interesting.

chasil: I bought a cheap, used iPhone SE3 because I needed to Facetime relatives.I learned quickly that "Find My" was far superior in remote tracking of airtag-equivalents, and switched some of my convertible tags to their network.I flew out of O'Hare last month, and there were advertisements all over the airport announcing that Illinois id/drivers license import into Apple Wallet, so I did it, and that works.Supposedly, passports can be imported. I haven't been able to make that work, even after a few hours on the phone with Apple.I also added a new CTA Ventra card, and I lost my ATM card while out of the country and instantly added a new one to Apple Wallet.Apple devices allow biometrics to be disabled for unlocking the phone. That is an important requirement for me to use these features.I would never, ever trust Google with any of these things. Ever.That being said, if I want to run a torrent client on my phone, I should be able to do so. Apple will never allow that.If I want a Bourne/POSIX shell, I should be able run one. Apple will never allow that [AFAIK].There are important reasons that Apple products will never, ever be my primary communication devices.

Rohansi: > I would never, ever trust Google with any of these things. Ever.Why do you trust Apple with them? What guarantees Apple will not do evil?

jmye: Currently, one is a surveillance company that is motivated to abuse my privacy in every possible way, in order to target ads (and, conceivably, Gemini). The other, currently, is a hardware company that's dipped it's toes in advertising and is motivated to sell me devices and services.If, at some point, they converge, I will trust Apple as little as I trust Google, but it's absurd to pretend they're the same thing, today or to "what if" yourself into knots.Google is absolutely an evil company, head to toe, that is aligned against you. Trusting them with anything is almost as stupid as trusting Meta.

lynndotpy: Personally, I gave Apple many thousands of dollars, and then I had updates forced on me by Apple which made every Apple device I own worse.One can be angry about things which directly and immediately make their life worse while also being angry about the other evils in the world.This is surely not a trend, I am sure humans around the world throughout history have been able to criticize one thing even while something far worse is happening.

JollySharp0: You traded convenience for control. That is how all these big companies lock you in.

rdiddly: Someone changed their mind about something they've been putting up with, it's as simple as that.The boiling frog thing is a myth - most frogs realize the water's too hot at some point, and jump out.

lern_too_spel: This UK law does not apply to OSes. It applies to online platforms. The author ran into this problem because using the iPhone required an Apple account.

soapdog: Random nobody here, I can write whatever I want on my own personal blog, you're not required to read it.

gmac: Apple verified my account that very way this morning!

soapdog: Author here, didn't realise this was posted on this site. AMA.

MrDrMcCoy: When you move to Android, I'd definitely recommend getting a Pixel for GrapheneOS. It's really highly polished and most things should just work once you press the button to enable sandboxed Google Play.Also curious what Linux distro and desktop you're going to. Flatpak makes it matter a lot less these days, so long as the base stays pretty current.

nodesocket: You’ll be back. Have you tried Windows 11 lately? Want an exercise in self-restraint not plowing yours fist through your monitor? Use Windows. Microsoft as Steve Jobs said has no taste. They hire the cheapest international engineers who take zero accountability and perfection in their work. Everything is just, that will do. Good enough.

lern_too_spel: The article did not say anywhere that Windows is even under consideration, so your criticism doesn't apply.

soapdog: I'm the author, some of the tahoe issues can be seen in:https://tonsky.me/blog/tahoe-icons/https://noheger.at/blog/2026/01/11/the-struggle-of-resizing-...there are a lot more, but I don't have the links handy.

sgt: Agree the icons are unnecessary and silly. Apple should know better.The corners haven't bothered me much, I like seeing a bit of a gap down there, and I haven't had issues dragging it but that could be because I'm using a regular USB mouse and not a trackpad.I've been a macOS user (or OS X rather back then) since 2003. It was truly a blessing to finally get a proper UNIX™ on the desktop. I was on Linux in the 7-8 year period before that.

gmac: In the UK, having a credit card is an overwhelmingly good move even if you never use the facility for credit. You can set up a direct debit to pay it off in full every month, making it effectively a debit card, but you get what are known as Section 75 protections on all purchases. So if you’re buying online and the firm goes bust (or you for any other reason don’t receive your goods), the credit card firm has to compensate you in full. For this reason I always make larger online purchases on credit card.

soapdog: author here, the post was mostly about desktop. I don't rely on my phone much but I need it to work as expected when needed.

ApolloFortyNine: >No, this is an absolutely terrible idea. You're suggesting a giant, centralized, government-run data silo, with all of your online activity tied to your real-world ID. This is far worse for privacy than any data broker, it's hard to even compare.Not all your online activity, even if they kept logs it would be something like 'this site asked for age verification, we said yes'.So they would have a list of sites, if they stored them and were allowed to store them. Which is something they can get from your ISP regardless.It could be used for bad sure, lots of things can. In my perfect world this wouldn't exist at all like it hasn't for 30+ years. But putting the burden on private companies was always going to create other avenues for issues.

ta9000: Sounds like a lot of their problem boils down to them living in a nanny surveillance state.

gib444: Pray tell, to what utopia should we move?

froggertoaster: I'm asking genuinely, how is this top of HN? The comments seem to indicate that HN overall doesn't find this article to be valuable at its face.Seems to happen a lot with "ragequitting" posts. I feel like I could write "Microsoft Just Lost Me" and it could get to the top.

layer8: A lot of people agree with the sentiment and therefore upvote it, but don’t bother engaging in the comments.

barrell: My non techie friends all hate it. I don’t think there is a single Apple user I talk to regularly that hasn’t complained about it, or ask me why it is that way (being the resident tech person for some).And besides a few odd posts on x, I haven’t heard anyone techy speak positively about it.Maybe I’m the one in a bubble, but I’m seriously considering switching from Apple as a lifelong Apple user, largely because of the UI changes (Liquid Glass et al), so I don’t think the complaints about it are overblown.

hecifato: I do think the glass effects do look great in certain areas, like pulling down Notification Center. But I find LQ for the most part to be change for the sake of it. Small things like replacing the Cancel & Confirm/Done prompts with larger X or checkmark icons bother me. They take up more space on screen, and honestly they don't always translate well. There are some cases where a checkmark has taken the place of "Done" and I have felt genuine confusion on how to get out of the editing mode or options screen.

koonsolo: I switched as a heavy Linux user to a MacBook because of this reason.1. Battery is better than any other laptop out there2. Touchpad is better than any other laptop out there. I don't even use a mouse anymore3. Sound is better than any other laptop out there.There is no other laptop that comes even close to this hardware.

freediddy: I've been using Mac for 15+ years now. I thought I would hate Glass so I avoided installing it across my ipad, phone, etc. But it was forced on my on my work laptop. Overall I don't notice the difference. There's nothing that outrages me, but I do find the changes useless.

grumblepeet: They have just done the same to me. I spent nearly two hours on the phone with Apple support before I find they will not accept a UK passport as valid ID. They will only accept the national ID card that I also don’t have. I don’t have or want a credit card. I’m 65 so me being now unable to verify my age is embarrassing and insulting. And the way Apple messed me about earlier has put me off them now. I won’t buy another product or service from them ever again.

giancarlostoro: People going that route dont care about filling a DOB on an account.

Even though my software is packaged and notarised as per their requirements, they still show my users a dialog box confirming they want to run my app, something they do not for apps installed through their walled garden. This is just friction to punish developers outside their store. I am very tired of it.

freedomben: > Even though my software is packaged and notarised as per their requirements, they still show my users a dialog box confirming they want to run my app, something they do not for apps installed through their walled garden. This is just friction to punish developers outside their store. I am very tired of it.Indeed. I'm honestly impressed that he lasted this long. My first "I'm very displeased moment" was when Java became a second-class citizen on macos. I was a Java dev at that time and had written some non-trivial apps. They weren't native perfect, but they were close enough that my highly-Apple-fan relatives didn't realize they weren't "native" until I told them. The write-once-run-anywhere dream of desktop UI software (without getting into Qt) was there in a very real way for me. I ran it on my windows machine at work, and my mac laptop and linux desktop at home. The hoops at that point were nothing compared to what they are now, and it began souring me. For me the final straw was when I got the latest macbook pro with the latest mac monitor (all from Apple mind you) and yet there was a horrific bug that aboutg half the time when you plugged in to the monitor, the laptop screen shut off and would never come back on until you did a hard reboot (holding the power button). That was never supposed to be possible since it was Apple hardware/software controlled top to bottom, the original promise of the vertical integration and one of the reasons we accepted the heavy lack of cross-platform compatiblity. A little before that I used to put my macbook on the nightstand and listen to podcasts at night to fall asleep. I would dim the screen to off and have the volume at low levels. Apple rolled out a software update that suddenly caused the screen to kick on at FULL BRIGHTNESS after about 5 to 10 minutes (when the screensaver would have normally kicked in). That bug was there for years, and myabe still is (I replaced it with a Linux laptop). My user experience on macs was never close to bug-free, and was frankly worse than almost everything else out there. It took me a while to figure that out though.